Grief, Witchcraft, and Finding Your Power with That Witch Karena

Karena, an empowerment and transformation coach, shares her perspective on witchcraft as resistance against patriarchal systems and a way of honoring our shadow aspects.

• Creating daily rituals helps us reclaim our power and stay centered in a chaotic world
• Rest is resistance and a powerful form of witchcraft in a capitalist society that demands constant productivity
• Loss and grief can be powerful teachers when we give them proper time and space
• Psychology and sociology provide important tools for understanding ourselves and our place in community
• Spell work is the tangible representation of our inner feelings expressed externally
• Early experiences with magic, like Karena's childhood fairy encounters, shape our spiritual perspectives
• We are magical simply because we exist—no extraordinary abilities required

Visit That Witch Karena here! 

Please go to the People's Choice Podcast Awards and nominate Your Average Witch podcast in the People's Choice and Religious and Spirituality categories. Getting this recognition would really help grow the show. Click here to nominate me!

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to That Witch Karina
• 8:30 What Being a Witch Means
• 15:10 Daily Rituals and Practices
• 21:50 Grief as Motivation and Struggle
• 31:05 Psychology and Sociology in Witchcraft
• 38:32 Building Community and Moving Forward
• 45:30 The Magic of Childhood Fairy Encounters

Transcript

Kimothy: 0:04

Welcome back to your Average Witch, where every other Tuesday we talk about witch life, witch stories and sometimes a little witchcraft. This week I'm talking with That Witch Karena, an empowerment and transformation coach who also happens to read tarot and do witchcraft. We talked about loss, coping with grief, and community. Before we get started, I want to ask a favor of you. I'm asking you to go to the People's Choice Podcast Awards and nominate Your Average Witch Podcast in the People's Choice and Religious and Spirituality categories. Getting this recognition would really help me grow the show. The more I can promote the show, the more interesting guests I can get to come on the show to entertain you. The link will be in show notes. I deeply appreciate all your support and help that you show me every day. Now let's get to the stories. Karena, hello, welcome to the show.

Karena: 1:03

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. 

Kimothy: 1:08

Thank you so much for being here. Can you please introduce yourself and let everybody know who you are and what you do and where they can find you?

Karena: 1:14

Absolutely so. I am That Witch Karena, but most folks just call me Karena. I am an empowerment and transformation coach who offers one-to-one coaching through Become the Witch. That's my program. In it I do tarot, we do some NLP stuff. I also offer classes. So I offer Awaken Your Inner Witch and Circles Rooted in Sisterhood, and I teach tarot and all of my offerings are centered around kind of awakening yourself to the shadow side of who you are, so that you can fully integrate everything that you are. And people can find me on Instagram. That's usually where I'm like I mostly hang out at That Witch Karena, and then on Instagram sorry, on Facebook I am That Witch Karena at the Witches Inn and you can find me on my website at thewitchesinn.com.

Kimothy: 2:23

So you go into the stuff that I'm trying to avoid. That's cool.

Karena: 2:27

Yeah.

Kimothy: 2:31

Okay.

Karena: 2:33

I love it, hey, you know what? So I'm a Scorpio sun, Taurus moon, Gemini rising. And so I'm like, built for this. This is like, this is my jam.

Kimothy: 2:46

I'm Taurus sun, Aries moon, Gemini rising.

Karena: 2:51

Oh, very cool, I love that.

Kimothy: 2:54

So, according to the two things I read, Taurus and Scorpio do well together, so that's fun. 

Karena: 3:12

Yeah, we're sister signs.

Kimothy: 3:14

So when you say that you're a witch, what does that mean? What does the word witch mean to you? 

Karena: 3:22

Okay, so for me, the word witch is basically someone who does not subscribe to patriarchy. I try very hard to examine my own internalized misogyny, because we all have internalized misogyny and work outside of the realm of like what would be deemed normal in society. So, for instance, I believe in things like harm reduction. I believe that, like, sex workers should have unions and that they should be seen as actually working class people, because they are. I'm a big believer in the shadow aspects in life and so having boundaries, allowing people to express their boundaries, and with that which also accompanies some spell work, some divination and the ability to see the duality of life, because that's what alchemy is right. Turning something into something else, turning raw material into gold that's what it used to be right or something that was more precious, and so, basically, that's how I would describe witch right Turning me raw material into something that is bright and shiny, that allows for everything to just be encompassed.

Kimothy: 4:57

I like that. Also, fuck the patriarchy. Yeah, let me just throw that out there. Yeah, so can you introduce us to your practice? Do you have any sort of daily thing that you do? Maybe not daily.

Karena: 5:18

No, I do try and make it daily, right, because I do believe that, like, consistency is key in especially like showing up for self, which is what I teach people how to do right, come back into center of self so that you can actually be a community member, because I think that there's a big disconnect between that right, like we're taught a lot to be a good community member, but that means self abandoning, and so routine is really important, and I like to call routines rituals, because that's what part of becoming the witch is is ritualizing your life. So every day I wake up and I make myself a coffee and in my coffee I stir in my intention for the day. So, whatever affirmation I am working with at that time and currently I am working through a shadow of well, I'm always working through a shadow of worthiness. Let's be honest, the patriarchy keeps us in that place of unworthiness, but going a little bit deeper in it keeps us in that place of unworthiness, but going a little bit deeper in it. And so this place where my affirmation right now is I am a powerful practitioner who gets paid for my work and who makes a difference. So I stir that into my coffee in the morning I take my first sip and really make sure to observe the sip, to be in the moment with the sip, to feel how that feels in my body. Does it give me the life that I'm hoping it will get me? Sometimes not. And then I usually sit down and do a little bit of journaling.

Karena: 7:01

Sometimes I pull tarot. I haven't been doing a lot of tarot this year. I think for me it's this place where I'm really kind of realizing that I'm the oracle and so I will turn to tarot if I need a little bit more. But if we were talking a year ago, I'd have been like oh yeah, I see how my day is going to be with tarot and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just not where I am anymore. And then I will usually watch something on YouTube that's spiritual related, like for a half hour or so, do a little bit of yoga, maybe while I'm watching it or after. It depends on kind of how I want to get my day started. And then I jump into work, sending emails, doing what I need to do, and my day kind of flows like that afterwards. So family, friends, work, it all kind of gets intermingled. Being a small business owner. I have the privilege of time that I get to utilize at my own pace, so that's how I ritualize my day.

Kimothy: 8:08

It's nice to be able to set your own schedule. I love it. What would you say is the biggest motivator in your practice, and can you contrast it with your biggest struggle?

Karena: 8:30

So my biggest motivator is helping people through grief. As a millennial, I think our generation has been compounded with a lot of grief, and I myself have experienced grief from a very young age. I lost all of my grandparents by the time I was 16. My parents divorced when I was 10. And by the time I was 32, I had lost both my parents as well. On top of that, a pandemic. We can talk about 9-11.

Karena: 9:02

We can talk about all these things that we rapidly see, our world changes drastically as millennials and I'm not discounting anything of the generations above mine, but a lot of us seeing a lot of very quick movement at a very young age. At a very young age as well, the rise of late stage capitalism really took over right, and when something is dying we are literally in the death of capitalism. It brings out the worst. If you've ever sat yeah, If you've ever sat with someone who is dying, you'll see the rally, right. So it's that moment where it's like maybe a week before their death, all of a sudden it appears that they're doing really, really well and then they kind of they drift and they start reaching right.

Karena: 9:56

So for me, that is my biggest motivator is because I don't think that as this late stage capitalism started to take over, we lost a lot of our grief rituals. We lost a lot of time to grief. People were like get over it, let's go, Capitalism needs us. Let's go, go, go, get up back on that machine. And so again, with the privilege and loss of my parents, this is where I built my business, right, Right in the middle of it, and it was because I received a small inheritance and so I had the opportunity to really be like okay, what do I want to do with my life, how do I want to build my life? And so I decided to take that money, allow myself rest, because rest is resistance and it's a big form of witchcraft. And I decided to start working with people.

Kimothy: 10:54

Can you say that again so I can use it for a soundbite, but also so people can hear it again?

Karena: 11:02

Yeah, rest is resistance, yeah.

Karena: 11:08

I love that, yeah, and so what I was finding right? I started my business, just as Tarot. And again, nothing wrong with Tarot. I love Tarot. Tarot is my baby. We have a really, really great relationship.

Karena: 11:26

But the more and more I sat with people, the more and more I realized oh, honey, you're grieving. This is deep grief locked inside your body. And so I started coaching, and when I teach people about witchcraft, it really is about those shadow aspects that grief and patriarchy want us to hold and claim as shame and guilt, because that's what grief can show up as in the body is shame and guilt and anger, and then allow that to transform, to transmute. So we're not trying to escape it anymore, we're actually inviting it in and realizing that it's quite beautiful. And again, just like rest is resilience and resistance, so is joy, and so we can bring grief into a place of joy. I am grieving because I loved and I loved hard, loved and I loved hard, and there is nothing wrong with that, and so my grief deserves time and space, and I can feel sadness with that, but I can also feel joy with that, and that's really the basis of my practice and what I bring to people that hurts my feelings a little bit.

Kimothy: 12:51

Why are you making me feel feelings right now?

Karena: 12:55

Because I'm a Scorpio, baby! That's what we do!

Kimothy: 13:06

Ow! Wait. What about your biggest struggle?

Karena: 13:09

My struggle yeah, so my struggle has been grief. That really has a time place, an ending, beginning and ending that doesn't negate the very real abandonment that also comes with grief, and that's something over the last year. I've had many struggles, obviously, but that's something over the last year that I've really been reconciling with is this idea that, like, oh, I'm actually kind of fucking pissed off that my parents died and left me by the time I was 32. And that, like I'm the oldest on my like, in in my line, I'm the oldest daughter, I have to now like, basically carry all this fucking bullshit, be the story keeper, kind of enter into my crone era. Way before I wanted to enter in my crone era and it always has kind of felt like I have had to abandon these younger versions of self for grief in some way, shape or form, so that, although, yes, things are going to abandon me in my life, it's just the natural order of things. I no longer have to abandon myself.

Kimothy: 14:56

When those things happen, I tend to tantrum. At some point I will tantrum about it. So that's enjoyable. Enjoyable, okay. After that exciting moment, what is your favorite tool in your practice? And it doesn't have to be like a physical thing. It doesn't have to be a physical thing you can hold. It can be like an emotion or a song or a scientific theory. What do you like? What is your favorite thing to use?

Karena: 15:31

So okay, wow, I love that, how you worded that, because my immediate thought was like oh, tarot. But the way that you were like, well, it doesn't have to be like an actual like divination tool. I love the way that you think outside the box with this, because I would have to say it's psychology, sociology and psychology. That's how I got started. I was getting my master's in gender studies and sociology and I love. I love like nature versus nurture. I just people fascinate me, Behavior fascinates me. Like what do you mean? Twins can grow up in the exact same house and live completely different lives, especially if they have like the same DNA and parents. Like what does that? What? What do you mean? Like? So I would have to say like the mix of psychology and sociology, nature, nurture that is my favorite tool. 

Kimothy: 16:38

How do you use it in your practice?

Karena: 16:41

Oh. So how I use it in my practice is sociology. We talk a lot about you know, who you are in the grand scheme of your community, right, that community member piece. And then sociology sorry, psychology the place where it's like how do you want to interact with that community, how do you want to be in that right, what are the expectations that you felt from your socialization and what do you actually want to be in that.

Karena: 17:20

And again, it's that place of patriarchy and the witch right. The witch was burned, or women were burned because they had thoughts that didn't go into hive-like mentality, they held property, they held wisdom. And so it's this place where it's like how can I help you realize that you can be a sovereign, autonomous person while also being part of that community, and that disruptors are needed in order to build good community, because it allows for innovation. So that's how I kind of use it in my practice is that I get the people that I'm sitting with to kind of become the observer so that they can actually see how they interact and how they want to interact with people, places and themselves.

Kimothy: 18:21

I like the idea of taking on the mantle of disruptor. I like that a lot, because don't tell me what to do. Yeah, yes, what's something you wish was discussed more in the magical community?

Karena: 18:46

I think with the rise of witchcraft and TikTok, it is really sold. Witchcraft is really sold as like spells and that's not what it is. I mean it's part of it, Like it's absolutely part of it.

Kimothy: 19:09

It's not all of it, no, it's not what it is.

Karena: 19:11

I mean, it's part of it, it's absolutely part of it, it's not all of it. Life as being sacred, of being in this place, of like you know, this is who I am and I'm okay with it. And I'm not just okay with it, I actually love it.

Karena: 19:36

And, like I don't need you to like me in order for me to like me, you're hurting patriarchy's village right now right now 100, right, and so I just I think that, like, spell work is the manifestation or the tangible representation of, like, our inside feelings.

Karena: 19:58

Externally, it's an opportunity to reclaim power through the tangible, and I wish that more people discussed it in that way. Right, because, like, if some, I don't do this and I, but like, I'm not against it either. Right, if someone's like I want to hex my ex, like, yeah, go ahead, hex your ex, but realize it's you trying to alchemize your anger, your pain. Externally, you no longer want to hold that in your body and so you're finding a way to output that and like that can absolutely create results in the very real world. But understanding that like it's because you don't want to hold that is why you're doing that. For me, like other people might have different opinions on that, which I absolutely welcome, but that's my understanding of when I'm doing spells, when I'm teaching spell work, that's how I teach it. This is the tangible representation of your inside feelings externally period.

Kimothy: 21:05

That's cool. That's's cool. I like new viewpoints. Thank you, that's cool. I have never considered it that way. I don't know that I've considered it at all, so that's cool. Have you taken steps to develop a community near you and, if you have, do you have any resources that you can share, or do you have whatever you have built? Uh, can you share that as a resource?

Karena: 21:48

So for me, having lost a lot of folks during covid. Not do like, not due to covid, just I had a lot of people pass away at that time, yeah, my community was like pretty eradicated. But also also I I pardon me, sorry, I isolated myself quite a bit, and so a lot of my community is actually on line, and so when I'm doing offerings through my work and I mean it was COVID- right Like the pandemic forces to go online.

Karena: 22:26

So my communities are online, and the one that I have right now that I am promoting and that's a staple is called Rooted in Sisterhood, and so it is for socialized women who are looking to reclaim their power, who are looking to reclaim their power. We meet seasonally, and so my next round is June 22nd, and we are going to be specifically speaking about summer, because it's the summer solstice, the energy of the mother, because that is what summer is all about Mothering, nurturing, creating sustainability, growth, and then also how we relate to the mother, regardless if we are mothers or not. Majority of the women that are in my community are not mothers or they have older children. But in saying that, I'm actually in transition in my life right now, and so I'm moving from one city back to my hometown, and it's amazing what I am realizing of how much community I actually have outside of my online space, and so, if you are in the Ontario Southern Ontario region, I am in Hamilton currently and I'm moving back to Niagara, so I'm moving to Thorold or around St Catharines, niagara Falls, and over that over the course of the next couple of months, I will be offering more things in person, just because I'll have the ability to do that.

Karena: 24:02

However, if you are in that area and you are looking for supports around leaving like domestic violence, or you're experiencing or being coming close to homelessness, I do have a lot of resources. With regards to outreach Like cause, I used to work in the social service field. Outreach Like cause I used to work in the social service field, and so I do invite people to like drop into my DMS and I can direct them maybe to a place that offers the support that they would need. That would not be coming from me, but I can offer them the resources like that they they might want to look into if they're at a loss for where to begin.

Kimothy: 24:51

That's nice. I like that. Yay, do you have like a list on your website?

Karena: 24:59

I don't have a list on my website, no, but that's a that's a good idea. I probably should put a list on my website. That's a great. That's a great suggestion. Thank you.

Kimothy: 25:10

So I would like you to think about your three biggest influences, whether it's people or a pet, or a book you read once, and thank them for the influence that they have had on your practice.

Karena: 25:27

Okay, well, my first influence you're gonna make me cry here is definitely, like my ancestors, good or bad, the experiences that I had with them have taught me so much about who I am and who I want to be, and so you know be. And so you know. Although, for instance, like my mother and I had a very complicated relationship, I can definitely, at this point in my life, see that like it was very much needed and it allowed me to be who I am today. My father, within my ancestry, taught me a lot about nurturing and that I really needed that in my life, and so he's definitely like a huge influence. But then also, just like my grandparents and like my friends who have passed away, all these people are extremely special to me and continue to influence me when I craft and how I live my life.

Karena: 26:52

The second would be Dr Maya Angelou. I remember watching her on Oprah when I was young I would probably say about 10 years old, 10 or 11 years old and I remember just listening to her and being like, yes, that's what it means to be human. She has this very famous quote that's like nothing human to me is foreign because I am human, and so if I see another human doing something, if I ask myself how I would never do that, I know that I'm not being truthful, because I am human and so that ability lives within me. I just haven't lived the circumstances in order to get me to where they are and I that, just like it's stuck with me and it's something that I revisit often and I think it allows me to be in a place that allows me to have empathy, but also allows me to have boundaries within that empathy. And so Dr Maya Angelou is a huge, huge influence for me.

Karena: 28:01

And then I will say my pet, my beautiful Cordelia. She is my cat, I've had her for. We've been together for like 10 years and, oddly enough, I had gotten her as a gift for a previous boyfriend of mine and we just like, bonded, like it was never his cat, it was always my cat, and she she is really, really taught me the ability to just like love without condition, and I'm not saying that that's like a trait that we should all have at all times, but I think unconditional love comes with reciprocity, and our relationship definitely has the reciprocity that is needed for that unconditional love that actually bonds people instead of being like, yeah, it's time to go, even in love. And so my beautiful cat, who just helps me with my magical workings and reminds me of my humanness, probably weekly.

Kimothy: 29:13

I always think it's funny when we think we're getting pets for either ourselves or someone else, but they're like no, this is how it's going to be. Yeah, yeah, because the dog that I was sad about I mean I still am was supposed to be my dog. Yeah, it happened, with that dog and a kitten who is definitely his. Both of them were like you're all right I guess.

Karena: 29:41

Yeah, if I have to have you, yeah sure, but I prefer yeah, yeah they're ridiculous.

Kimothy: 29:56

Now that you've seen what it's like to talk with me and you've seen the questions, who do you think would be an interesting guest for me to have on the show?

Karena: 30:06

I definitely think you should reach out to Emily of Wise Woman Witchery, or I can connect you. 

Kimothy: 30:13

Wait, am I stupid? I think I have had her on the show. 

Karena: 30:18

Oh, have you? Okay, yeah, so her, her podcast is The Witch Nextdoor. But her business is Wise Woman Witchery.

Kimothy: 30:24

That's what I remember, yeah.

Karena: 30:29

Okay, All right. So you definitely have had her beautiful, Okay, so, other other folks that I think would be a great fit for your podcast. I have a few new up and coming tarot readers that I think would really maybe benefit from kind of being visible a little bit more. And one thing I really love about podcast like being on podcasts like especially like your questions are so thought-provoking, is that it helps people kind of define who they are a little bit. You know what I mean. Like, oh yeah, I didn't really realize that that's what I was doing in my practice or that's who I am in my practice, right, so I definitely, Beyond the Purple Door, she's one of my students.

Karena: 31:16

Her name is Michelle. 

Kimothy: 31:18

That's a good name.

Karena: 31:19

So I will definitely reach out between the two of you to connect. Awesome.

Kimothy: 31:27

Yeah, that is very true. Just about every interview I do there's some sort of realization.

Karena: 31:42

It's beautiful, right you go. I was just going to say it's beautiful getting the opportunity to become visible through opportunities like this. It really does lead, like, to internal realization, like you, as the host, may be having realizations, yeah, but then like the people listening as well, and I think it's, it's needed, that is actually what it's for.

Kimothy: 32:10

I want people to feel like, oh, I am even if I don't want to accept the term normal. I'm not the only one who feels like this or is doing this. Yeah, Is there anything else that you wanted to talk about? Anything I didn't ask, anything that is happening with you, or did you have any questions for me?

Karena: 32:35

So, definitely, I'm just gonna like circle back to my Rooted in Sisterhood and really welcome people into that space. It's something that I really enjoy doing, because it does allow people this opportunity to witness themselves, to witness others. But, just as you had just said, right, be in this place where it's like, oh, I'm not in this alone, like there are other people experiencing what I am experiencing, maybe just in a different way, and then from there, my main offering is coaching Become the Witch. And this really is an opportunity for you to sit with someone who is not there to judge you, but someone who is there to be this like gentle mirror. That is like, yeah, you're doing a great job and like, where do you want to go from here? Or maybe you want to stay here, right, to really come into acceptance of self, rather than this idea of like fixing. That's not what my coaching is about. It's not about fixing, it's about accepting and, from that space, if things grow which they always naturally do when we accept that like allowing that. So that's, you know, really, what I would love to just share here.

Karena: 34:08

People can find me, of course, on That Witch Karena, on Instagram, and I just, I don't really have any questions for you, but what I would really like to say is like, thank you, thank you, thank you for, allowing this space for people to come on.

Karena: 34:28

You know, for that space of, I think there's so much that can be said, even just in your name, the title, the Average Witch, because I think for people to come into this place of like, claiming themselves as witch, they think they need to be like, extraordinary in some way, shape or form, but like you are magical simply because you are period. That's it. Magical simply because you are. Period. That's it. And there needs to be more emphasis on the averageness of life, because the mundane is magical, but Hollywood, the government, patriarchy, is trying to sell us something that tells us that we need to be something that we aren't, and so, offering this space, it's truly beautiful because it really does again create that gentle mirror that says like you are amazing, you are magical, you are full of witching just because you are. And so thank you so much, Kim, honestly, for having me here and giving me this opportunity to speak. It truly is a pleasure.

Kimothy: 35:48

Thank you for that. That's so kind, wow, thank you. Thank you, you're welcome. So the last two things. Thing number one is please recommend something, something to the listeners. It doesn't have to be magical or witchy or whatever. Whatever  cool thing you found this week that you're like hey, you gotta try this thing to whoever you're on the phone with. If you do phones or texting, or Marco Polo, whatever, whatever, you would recommend to your best friend right now, recommend it to the listeners.

Karena: 36:33

Okay. So I am going to recommend that, like you go outside and scream, like just like, shout out at the world, like just yeah, scream, let it out. Like do it where it may be in your car, maybe wherever but like don't do it in your house. Like go outside where, like maybe someone could see you doing it and be like that bitch is crazy and just be like, yeah, I'm fucking crazy, like that. That's my recommendation. Go outside and scream that is fun.

Kimothy: 37:18

It wouldn't really affect my neighbors because they're kind of far away and also I live out in BFE and they're used to weird things happening. But if you do this whoever's listening or watching and something funny happens, please come tell us about it. Yeah, I'd love that.

Karena: 37:43

My neighbors are also very used to me. Oh sorry, yeah, go ahead. I was going to say my neighbors are very used to me just like screaming and yelling outside at the sky, because I'm just like what the fuck, like what the fuck. 

Kimothy: 38:01

That reminds me of a line from I think it might be Next Friday or Friday After Next, “That crazy bitch is at it again.”  You're right, I am, we're still here, yep. So the last thing is is please tell me a story. It can be a story from your life, like the kind where you meet up with old friends or like cousins or something you're like remember that time, whatever, and everybody laughs and also participates in telling the story because everybody knows it. Or a story that you remember from childhood, that you just really enjoyed.

Karena: 38:42

Okay, so I used to have a story on my website but I took it down a long time ago, so I'll tell that story. When I was very young, I spent a lot of time with my grandmother. When I was very young, I spent a lot of time with my grandmother. So my father was a truck driver and my mother was going to college as well as like working, basically full time. So I spent a lot of time with my grandparents, but more often than not like my grandmother.

Karena: 39:13

And where I lived we lived in an apartment building, but behind the apartment building there was a like a creek, like a ravine, and my grandmother is probably the first person who ever really shared stories about like magic and wonder and fairies and being curious about like magic and wonder and fairies and being curious and, being the Scorpio baby that I am, and probably ADHD in some way, shape or form, I completely and still do believed in fairies, and I mean TV had fairies and stuff. So why wouldn't it be real? You know what I mean. So why wouldn't it be real? You know what I mean? And so we used to go down to the creek and she would kind of like, let me wander within reason, and this is maybe where I got like just talking out loud all the time, like when I was outside, but I would talk to the fairies and I would talk to the gnomes and I would talk to like the gremlins or whoever I thought was there, and she would give me like coins or like little hard candies or something like that to leave as offerings for them. And so I would go down and you know, I would see like light kind of like trickling through the leaves into the small creek bed and I'd be like, oh, that's like fairy magic, like getting lit up and you know like they're dancing across the water, leave my offerings there and probably say wishes or, being the little empathic person that I was probably asking them to, like, just be well, don't mind about me, you mind about you, you make sure you're doing well, you make sure you stay hidden. So you know, no one, no one finds you and captures you, like I'll make sure that you're safe. And of course, every time I would come back like the dimes or the quarters would be gone or the hard candies would be gone. I mean, adult me now knows that like crows and stuff like that were probably picking it up and whatever. But to me it was just this very big confirmation that like, yes, they are taking my offerings, they are hearing me, and that this is like very, very real. And so, yeah, we, I would have a many a conversation with my grandma about fairies and brownies and gnomes and gremlins and all that kind of stuff, and just asking her constantly, like, can we ask the fairies to help us with this?

Karena: 41:59

Would that be too much? Am I asking too much? Or, you know, let's leave some stuff out for brownies. And so I am not someone that subscribes to the fact that, like, fairies are mischievous and you shouldn't invite them in. I think that fairies are everywhere anyways, and as long as you are reciprocal with them and like mindful that they are also sovereign beings, that they will help you. And so, to this day, I have a fairy garden in my backyard and I still leave them, which I know now they really prefer milk and honey. So I leave them milk and honey every couple of days, or at least on the new moon and full moon. So that's my story.

Kimothy: 42:39

That is so sweet. That is so sweet. Do you think your grandma believed?

Karena: 42:50

I do, I think my grandma. So I'm second generation, coming from England on my mom's side, and so my grandmother was born in the United States. She came over like my great grandmother was pregnant, but I came from on all sides of my family like farmers, and so farmers really had to have this like reciprocal understanding and relationship with the land, and a lot of these old tales really held truth because there were these signs Every time I came back and I'm using me as an example but every time I came back, the coin would be gone, something would be gone, or a wish would be granted right, like crops would grow well after giving an offering, or it would rain, or something would happen. And so I do think that she believed. But I also believe that she was very similar to me in the aspect that, like this was probably a physical representation of an inside emotion that you know was put externally and then, like the universe picked it up and took it and like did something with it.

Karena: 44:11

So I do believe in fairies, I do believe in brownies, like I think that there are like cryptics, that like we don't necessarily see and stuff. But yeah, I think, I think she she believed. If you got her on the right day, she would probably tell you, yes, on. On the wrong day, she'd probably be like, no, it's all bullshit.

Kimothy: 44:42

That’s so cool. Will you craft a spell with me? 

Karena: 44:45

Sure, yeah. What would you like to do?

Kimothy: 44:48

 I don't know. We have to figure out intention, peace or self-worth, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Peace coming in, or peace going out, or sure, house protection.

Karena: 45:05

I just, I don't know okay, yeah, I love, love, love, love doing like home spells, because I feel like the home is an energetic representation of who we are, so I think that'd be super cool. I'm actually moving this month, so I would love to do a home spell, maybe like a transition, a transitional home spell. That would be cool.

Kimothy: 45:35

Yeah, oh, that's a challenge, I don't know, okay, because I could immediately come up with good correspondences for leaving or or a new place. But transition, oh, oh okay, I'm kind of a dirt witch. I just wander around and pick things up outside or in my studio my studio is also my witch room then, just, I have stuff everywhere, so I tend to just wander through and pick things up and I'm like, oh, this would be good for whatever transition, though okay, I have some cicada shells, that's what, transformation? But it's still transitioning, so I would use that. That's one thing I would use. What would you do? How do you do yours?

Karena: 46:24

So I really like working with fire, even though I'm like a water baby. So like my immediate thought is kind of like working with two candles and like setting them side by side. And when you said dirt, kind of like maybe, or like maybe creating like a road like from one candle to the next with like-

Kimothy: 46:46

Some dirt from both places or from like meet them in the middle?

Karena: 46:49

Oh, yeah, okay, like one from one place, one from the other. Yeah, okay, I like that.  

Kimothy: 47:06

I don't know where you would, where would you put the dirt? That's what I would do..

Karena: 47:11

Yeah, like I love that that's a great idea. Like I, cause I do have access to both places, so I could definitely like pick from one place to the other. If not, like if someone else is moving and they're wanting to do this spell, what I would say is, like go to your most favorite spot that and like collect dirt from your most favorite spot so that it's like harmonious and it feels really good for who you are and like the transition you're trying to create. That's what I would say, other than that.

Kimothy: 47:42

Do you use herbs and stuff?

Karena: 47:45

I do. So I  would probably use like catnip. I really like using catnip, because it it's really good... So I don't know if folks know this, but catnip is really good for like menstruation, like menstrual cramps and stuff like that. And like, when I think about moving, I think about kind of like entering the birth canal as what-

Kimothy: 48:33

 I did not expect that. 

Karena: 48:36

Oh, I, always I really I like to relate things back to the human body and the human experience. Yeah, Okay, I love it, so I. But it's also very good for clarity. It opens your third eye and so it can help. Yeah, yeah, so you can, you can drink catnip like tea. You can do that, yeah. 

Kimothy: 48:49

Doesn't it also have a calming aspect?

Karena: 48:54

Yeah, yeah. So it would definitely like again. Like just like I mean, when you're transitioning right, like it's like cramping, it's like gross, like there's like moving day, no matter like how easy you've like put things together, there's always going to be like one fight Right. And so, like catnip, just to like maybe like get you clarity and like relieve those cramps.

Kimothy: 49:21

Yes, I would throw in chamomile for the same reason.

Karena: 49:24

Okay, perfect, I love it.

Kimothy: 49:25

Everything explodes when we're moving. 

Karena: 49:37

Okay, yeah, exactly, maybe a mustard seed. I like working with mustard seeds a lot too, because it's like such a small seed, but it it grows like such a strong root system, and so mustard seed as well. And, like you, I would also probably put a hornet in the spell along the road.

Kimothy: 49:54

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