Herbal Wisdom and the Power of Connection with Rebecca Beyer of Blood & Spicebush

This episode highlights the intricate relationship between witchcraft, identity, and community through the lens of Rebecca Beyer's journey into Appalachian folk magic. The importance of cultural appreciation, imposter syndrome, and storytelling within the magical community offers listeners valuable insights and encourages a deeper understanding of their practices.

• Exploration of Appalachian folk magic and herbalism
• Journey from Wicca to traditional witchcraft
• Cultural appropriation vs. appreciation discourse
• Imposter syndrome challenges in magical practice
• Storytelling and the significance of folklore
• Importance of local community engagement
• Upcoming classes and resources for learning

Follow Rebecca here!
bloodandspicebush.com

Chapters

• 0:04 Exploring Witchcraft and Community
• 10:48 Exploring Appalachian Folk Magic and Culture
• 20:15 Seeking Inspiration and Addressing Cultural Appropriation
• 28:17 Community Resilience and Connection
• 39:41 Exploring Witchcraft Podcast Membership

Transcript

Kimothy: 0:04

Welcome back to your Average Witch where every Tuesday unless I'm late, like today, we talk about witch life, witch stories and sometimes a little witchcraft. This week I talked to Rebecca Beyer of Blood and Spicebush. We talked about appropriation, appreciation and community. Before we get started, I just want to remind you that you only have about two more weeks left to sign up for a Bee Box subscription, because Gem Show is happening and that's when I buy my supplies for the year, and I need to know my count. Every month I send out a monthly spell, a snack, an altar tool or a piece of Clever Kim's Curios jewelry, and a crystal, plus some other stuff, depending on what mood I'm in that month. You'll also get access to the private Discord and monthly Magic Marco Polo group. Visit crepuscularconjuration.com and click on Subscription Services to learn more. Now let's get to the stories! Rebecca, hello, welcome to the show.

Rebecca: 1:06

Hi, thanks so much for having me. 

Kimothy: 1:15

Thank you so much for being here. Can you please introduce yourself and let everybody know who you are and what you do and where they can find you?

Rebecca: 1:16

Of course, my name is Rebecca Beyer. I live in Western North Carolina and I run a business called Blood and Spicebush School of Old Craft where I teach herbalism, Appalachian folk magic and medicine, and wild food foraging. I'm also an author and a tattoo artist. 

Kimothy: 1:36

So freaking cool. Can you please tell everybody what it means to you when you call yourself a witch?

Rebecca: 1:43

Yeah, I can be a little bit of a pooper. I'm obsessed with historical magical systems, especially Appalachian folk magic and English traditional witchcraft. So for me, being a witch for me means a person who practices magic.

Kimothy: 2:02

I love succinct answers.

Rebecca: 2:04

You know, because you can be a witch and be many other things, and I think that's a pretty open definition to encompass the complexities of our unique beliefs.

Kimothy: 2:17

I agree, it's pretty, it's that simple.

Rebecca: 2:18

It can be, right?

Kimothy: 2:19

Mm-hmm. Do you, would you say you have any family history with this? It sounds like you probably did, if you're in Appalachia. 

Rebecca: 2:34

I did not actually. I have no family history of witchcraft that I know of. I'm not close with my family and I grew up in the Unitarian Universalist Church, which was really wonderful If you're not familiar. It's kind of like a secular humanist church, and I grew up, I was born, in Western Pennsylvania in 1987. And I then was moved all over the country. I've lived in California and a lot of places in New Jersey and I went to a church in Princeton, New Jersey where they had a Wiccan chapter. So when I was 12, I had a Wiccan Sunday school teacher and she's the one who opened the door for me to start learning with her as my mentor.

Kimothy: 3:19

Man. I grew up in Virginia and had a Southern Baptist Sunday school teacher. I'm wonder how different would it have been, I wonder what it would have been like for me if I had had that instead. Probably less scary.

Rebecca: 3:35

Yeah, that sounds really scary.

Kimothy: 3:42

Well, can you introduce us to your practice? Do you have any daily, or, if not daily, consistent things that you do?

Rebecca: 3:49

Yeah, I feel like I used to. I started out with Wicca. I think that's like a gateway drug for many of us, or the place that we just live and beautifully in a witchcraft practice and I was a little frustrated because I am a huge medieval history nerd. That was my minor in college and I really love, I worked in historical living history, farming and driving draft horses when I was younger. 

Kimothy: 4:20

That sounds amazing! 

Rebecca: 4:22

It was so special. It was a very special time. I was very interested in collecting old recipe books and like very anachronistic things the SCA things like that and I was kind of frustrated because I wanted to be able to tell like well, where does this practice in my Wiccan religion come from? And I couldn't find like sources and I couldn't find like well, what country did this come from? What era did they practice this practice in? And so it led me to traditional witchcraft, which is largely a term from the early 2000s to describe the pre and early modern era, so like 1500 to 1800 or 1900, depending on who's defining it. What practices were called witchcraft in Western Europe at that time? And that really scooped me up. So I practice largely outside of a religious context, so I mostly do magic when it's needed, like I don't do magic every day and I celebrate, you know, the Sabbath, the Wheel of the Year, and of course make time for those special days with my community. But each day it depends on what my needs are. Like recently, in the aftermath of Hurricane Helene, we've been doing a lot of protection magic and things like that, or uncrossing and things like that. So it really depends on what the flavor of the day is. But when I'm working at my tattoo shop, my co-worker is a Houdou practitioner. The two of us work a money altar every day together and we do a lot more… just kind of like meeting your basic needs, magic.

Kimothy: 5:49

That sounds like a tattoo shop I want to visit.

Rebecca: 5:52

Well, we're almost done rebuilding. In the next about month you probably can. 

Kimothy: 6:03

That sounds really cool! Well, since you basically started out in this, I'm still going to ask the question. Would you say that witchcraft has changed your life?

Rebecca: 6:12

Oh, irreparably. I mean it's it's been the only constant in my life since I was 12 in a very like... We moved a lot when I was a kid, and I every four years at least, so I didn't really feel any sort of home. And my family unfortunately I don't have connection with my birth parents anymore and so it's like very nice to have the I don't know. It kind of feels like your family and it's brought me into community with some of the most spectacular people I could imagine and filled my life with such meaning, especially as an herbalist and forager. I feel like it has breathed meaning into everything that I do, which I really love.

Kimothy: 6:56

That is beautifully said.

Rebecca: 6:58 

Thank you.

Kimothy: 7:01

 I agree. That's how I feel about it. Yes, my family came through this. I love y'all. Bees, I love you.What would you say is the biggest motivator in your practice?

Rebecca: 7:12

Iwas not raised culturally Appalachian or with any cultural identity, and I feel you know I came to Appalachian folk magic in 2010 when I moved to Western North Carolina and I started taking classes with Byron Ballard, who is a local teacher, and she was my first teacher in this tradition and doing a lot of research. I studied Appalachian studies at App State as a master's student and I really got to just take the time to dig in to primary documents, to interviews, to all kinds of books that you can't get access to outside of a university setting, and it sucks that I didn't have that family connection to learn what I wanted to learn. I had to go outside myself. But Byron has always been a warm, supportive, kind and special person in my life, so someone I can ask advice to and things like that. But yeah, I don't know, it's hard to say, it's really hard to say.

Kimothy: 8:23

She was a delight when I got to talk to her for this show. 

Rebecca: 8:27

Oh, she's so fun. 

Kimothy: 8:28

It was very much like talking to one of my old aunts or something like I didn't even have an aunt like that, but that's what it was like.

Rebecca: 8:34

I have a lot of aunts and many of them are very sweet, but we're not very close and they're all very, like I would say like left-leaning and liberal, so I can talk to them about anything, but that's, we're not very close and it is nice to have. I love having an elder like Byron because she doesn't feel like an elder even though she's older than me, because she's also very playful, very funny, she's very sex positive. She's just a very unique person that can provide a lot of different. I don't know, I can connect with her in a lot of different ways, but she was my first real teacher of this tradition that I am so obsessed with.

Kimothy: 9:10

That's amazing. Yeah, I am envious.

Rebecca: 9:13

Oh sorry. Oh, I'm sure you know she does teach a lot of classes and she's very, very prolific. With her new book coming out too, she's done a lot of good stuff.

Kimothy: 9:24

Well, what would you say is your biggest struggle with your practice?

Rebecca: 9:29

I think my biggest struggle is feeling like an imposter because I don't have a family lineage and I don't… because I, because I went to high school in New Jersey. I often tell people that and they're like well, why do you practice Appalachian magic? And I'm like well, I live in Appalachia. I teach foraging and wildcrafting professionally, so I'm on the land and working with plants often and it is tough to feel like it's okay for me to take up any mantle. As a person who's kind of placeless and homeless in a soul way. Yeah. So that's felt tough, but I have to say like it has also provided me kind of a homecoming, because my family is from Western North Carolina or Western Pennsylvania, on both sides, and I don't I don't really get to sit down with those people and talk with them. So coming to something I know I can imagine, that is like what my ancestors did, feels very special to me and so it's something I've had to push through. And you know, I'm sure it upsets some people that I wasn't raised in a family that taught me this. But I guess we're in the modern era, we come to all things in our own ways now because of the disruption of lineages.

Kimothy: 10:48

I kind of feel like one of the big things in Appalachia is making do with what you got and you are where you are, so what else would you do.

Rebecca:  11:00

It's true, and I, I personally feel really passionate about cultural appropriation. Like I don't feel a big draw to, you know, cherry-pick here and there from different cultures I have no family ties to and I really am interested in and fascinated by other cultures and find them very special. And I would say the tradition I rub shoulders with the most is Hoodoo, because we share so much in common with them in Appalachian folk magic, since they were both co-created alongside each other. And, yeah, it's so interesting to think about what we choose to do, what interests us, what calls us, and then it's social impacts, you know, of what we end up practicing.

Kimothy: 11:41

This is... I love this conversation.

Rebecca: 11:43

 I'm really glad. 

Kimothy: 11:44

Circling back to the imposter syndrome, please, what, what would you say you do to reduce it, for yourself to feel less like you shouldn't be there?

Rebecca: 12:02

Well, the first thing is always be honest about where you stand in the hierarchy. You know, like I, especially as an author writing about Appalachia, I'm trying not to say, like you know, oh, my family. I'm not going to make up a story that my, you know, my grandma taught me anything. You know what I mean. Yeah, I'm going to be honest about how I learned things. I named my teachers. I'm going to say their names, you know, and none of us learn this stuff in a vacuum. I'm going to be able to cite what books I learned things from. I'm going to be responsible about naming where my knowledge comes from, and I am. You know that that, to me, is really like the most important thing. And also, not assuming that I am an expert on anything, because I've read some books over someone's lived experience that might look different than what has been gathered in books from interviews, you know.

Kimothy: 12:58

Everybody that wrote the book is still just a person.

Rebecca: 13:11

Exactly, and I see I really love the internet. You know Instagram makes my life possible for all my businesses and also the amount of people who say this is Appalachian, this isn't Appalachian. I find that such a curious question and it's one of the main ones we ask in Appalachian studies, because there's not really an answer. We know what physically is and isn't Appalachia, but culturally it's such a slope and I, you know one. One thing I think is important is that I want to act as someone who is obsessive and academic in my knowledge gathering and my fact gathering. I'd like to make that readable and digestible for others who may not have that interest because I'm a nerd.

Kimothy: 13:57

I can't relate to anybody not obsessing over things.

Rebecca: 14:07

I know, right, yeah, and I also want to make sure that in that, you know, to make sure I ground myself in reality and not what I call the bid for false authority that I always keep that in my mind and if somebody says, well, this is or this isn't Appalachian, I don't necessarily have to go to bat arguing with them, but I can be like, okay, I'm going to notice that, I'm going to take that in and digest that information and I'm not going to, like, argue with people about that, because it's very personal and it's an identity as well as a physical place, you know. 

Kimothy: 14:40

Yes. is there anything you wish more people would ask you about? 

Rebecca: 14:43

That's a really good question. I wish more people would ask me about places to learn Appalachian folk magic and folk medicine, which is my. You know, as an herbalist, I practice a pretty scientific western approach. I have a degree in plant and soil science and I'm very interested in science, but I'm also very interested in, you know, magical religious and plant lore, uses of plants, and I wish more people would ask me what are good sources for me to learn those things, because I have created a free bibliography online with journal articles and books and blog articles that I think are important, about the magical uses of plants that are well cited and that are not repeating hearsay or, you know, even harmful stereotypes. 

Kimothy: 15:10

I do love a good citation. 

Rebecca: 15:12

I do too, and and I always noticed that is my blind spot, you know that's my area of work is nothing needs to be cited, but especially if you're coming in as an outsider to something, I need to be careful about where I'm saying I'm getting information from. That's why I value citations personally.

Kimothy: 16:08

It's like this dumb dichotomy. I love facts, I love concrete things, and yet it's witchcraft. 

Rebecca: 16:17

It is, it is. It's deeply personal, you know, and when I'm doing a spell, if I don't have whatever I want for that, like, if I'm doing something and I, you know, I grow lemongrass, and if I'm out of lemongrass I might just go grab a twig of spice bush, because it smells lemony, even though they have very different uses historically, magically. I don't need to be a stickler for that. But if I'm teaching someone else, I'm going to say that, I'm going to name that. You know what I mean.

Kimothy: 16:51

Think about your favorite tool. It doesn't have to be a physical thing. It can be like a song or a certain smell you like to work with. What is your favorite tool and how do you use it?

Rebecca: 17:02

Oh my gosh. So I don't know if this counts. Like you said, song, so that makes sense. I love crows. They're one of my favorite animals and in certain parts of the North Atlantic islands like you know England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, that whole landmass there are auguries where you look to crows and the numbers of them or magpies, depending on where you're at to determine what your day will be like, what will come, what's coming, you know. So, honestly, the one thing I do almost every day is I see the first group of crows that I can, and their number will determine some message to me.

Kimothy: 17:46

I really miss crows.

Rebecca: 17:47

Me too right, they're so special and you don't get to see them. There's a song, though I'll just sing you like a small snippet of it…  

One for sorrow, two for joy, 

three for a girl and four for a boy, 

five for silver, six for gold,

and seven for a secret never told. 

Do you know that song?

Kimothy: 18:12

Yes!! Yes! I found that song about three months ago. 

Rebecca: 18:19

Oh yeah, the Unthanks, which we can probably link to. But that song is based on the magpie, the devil's bird, but also is applied to ravens and crows, depending on where you're from, and you know the rhyme is like one for sorrow, two for mirth, three for a death, four for a birth, instead of for a girl or a boy. There's also that other verse, and I usually try to see the first. If I see two crows, I'm like oh, two for mirth, that means happiness, I'm going to have a good day today. If I see one crow for sorrow, I'm like I'm going to prepare myself to deal with whatever the day throws at me. You know, and that is actually one of the most common things that I do every single day, and while the birds are not a tool, that relationship of witnessing them is to me.

Kimothy: 19:09

I love that method. 

Rebecca: 19:10

Oh, thank you.

Kimothy: 19:11

And I love that that song came up!

Rebecca: 19:17

Yeah, I love that song. It's so, so splendid. 

Kimothy: 19:18

I did sing with it, sing with you in my head.

Rebecca: 19:20

Oh lovely. Do you like to sing?

Kimothy: 19:27

Yes. I actually sometimes use it as part of my work.

Rebecca: 19:31

My best friend is Sarah Lynch Thomason. She is a local ballad singer and song folklorist in Western North Carolina. I actually moved here to be near her. We've been best friends since we were 18, and we're both 37 and 38 now, and she teaches the singing the wheel of the year, a pagan choir, and I learned most of the songs I know from her and she's just really a special person. 

Kimothy: 20:01

That sounds really cool!

Rebecca: 20:02

 Yeah, and she even does it digitally. So if you can't come to the, if you're not local, you can still learn the songs with someone to help teach you how to sing them. 

Kimothy: 20:08

Holy crap!

Rebecca: 20:09

 I know! You should definitely check it out if you haven't seen it. Oh cool, she just started it this week. 

Kimothy: 20:15

That's cool! Now we all get doldrums. We all get in those doldrums, sometimes, even if we're not on a boat. How do you pull yourself out of a magical slump?

Rebecca: 20:27

You know, one thing. I am such a book nerd. Unfortunately, this is like the saddest thing that happened to me personally during Helene is that my entire library was destroyed. My whole tattoo shop was destroyed by the hurricane, with 13 feet of water flowed through my studio and destroyed every one of my books that I've been collecting since I was 18. And what I used to do, and I've slowly bought some of my most important books back over the last three months, some people have actually sent me books too, which is extremely special. I often will pull a book out, especially, you know, recently I've been reading The Red Church, which is on Pennsylvania Dutch folk practice, which I'm very passionate about as a Pennsylvania girl, and I'll just read a random chapter and always, you know, especially learning from other people, I'm going to find something that will light me up, and that has been a really reliable thing for me to do.

Kimothy: 21:25

That's the most interesting answer anybody's given so far. Nobody's ever said anything like that before.

Rebecca: 21:31

That's wild yeah, we call it psychic dictionary where you just open a book and, just like bibliomaniacally, you're trying to define the future with a book. You can pull it out, run your finger on the page to stop at somewhere random, open a book and just just just like bibliomancy, you know you're trying to define the future with a book. You can pull it out, run your finger on the page to stop at somewhere random, open your eyes and see what is being delivered.

Kimothy: 21:46

Psychic dictionary is way funnier than the word “bibliomancy.” 

Rebecca: 21:49

Yeah, Bibliomancy is cool, but you can abbreviate psychic dictionary too and give yourself a real chuckle. 

Kimothy: 21:55

That is hilarious. I might borrow that from you.

Rebecca: 22:03

Definitely. I learned it from a friend of mine, so it's totally free game.

Kimothy: 22:05

 I'm here for anything that makes me laugh, basically.

Rebecca: 22:07

Excellent. We need more laughter.

Kimothy: 22:09

Is there anything you wish was discussed more in the magical community?

Rebecca: 22:17

Yes, I wish that people talked about, I wish people could, you know, as a person who's white, who hangs out with and is a part of the periphery of a lot of African folk traditions and folk religions and Hoodoo, I wish people would have more honest conversations around what is and what isn't cultural appropriation, because I see two extremes in that conversation, neither of which are accurate to people's lived experiences with American folk religions. You know, if possible, they would be so much easier and compassionate Because, yeah, I just see so much intense like arguing and infighting in our tiny communities and I really wish that people could just come together to see each other's humanity a little bit more there. And if someone says, hey, you know, white sage is endangered, it’d be really cool if you guys could stop using it if you're outside the Western indigenous context and people really lose their noodle over it. I think if you had an indigenous person come to you, look you in the eyes and say, hey, this is causing harm to me, can you stop? I can't imagine how hard it would be to say no, I don't care about your feelings. You know, like it's just, I really think about that. I can't fathom that. I know, and it's really sad because I do believe the internet is amazing. I'm so grateful for it. I've created such beautiful communities in this liminal space. But I don't love how it supports entitlement and the like, American ideal of individualism above all things versus like community care, and that's one thing I really wish people would think about more.

Kimothy: 24:10

Do you have any suggestions or resources for that without- And I know I don't necessarily think you expect marginalized people to teach anybody, but do you have any resources for people who want to do that for themselves?

Rebecca: 24:26

I actually do. I wrote an ebook. It's five, I think it's $5 or maybe $7. I can't remember. It's a download on vernal plants from traditions around the world to pick one from your own ancestry, and I included plants from India, plants from China, plants from Nepal. So, no matter what your background, you can find the smoke plants of your own ancestry to connect with, and also plants that are more abundant, like lavender, and things that many of us can grow in temperate areas. So I wrote that ebook as a response to that, with citations to help people find other options that you don't have to ask anybody for and you can read it as many times as you want. It's on my website.

Kimothy: 25:09

Hit me with the citations. I love it. okay, okay. Think about your three biggest influences. Whether it's people, or a song you heard once, or a book you read, thank them for the effect they've had on your work.

Rebecca: 25:31

Thank them?

Kimothy: 25:32

Yes, please. 

Rebecca: 25:33

Oh yeah, I want to thank Ronald Hutton, the Stations of the Sun, his book on the ritual year in Europe and in Britain specifically, and his lectures. Thank you, Ronald, Dr Ronald Hutton, for your amazing playful lecturing on the little and the much that we know of pre-Christian Britain, which is one of my main ancestry points. That book has been life-changing for me and I also love all the associated lectures I can listen to for free online. Thank you so much. Thank you, of course, to Byron Ballard, who has always treated me like… man, just like family, and I, you know, has been so patient with me and kind and a colleague and a friend and I yeah, there's no way to thank her enough. Also supporting me through difficult health times in my life even, oh man. And there's, of course, Anne, my teacher, my first teacher when I was 12 years old at the Princeton Unitarian Universalist Church. Probably the very least books too. There's so many DC Watts, the Dictionary of Plant Lore. I will never go without that book. I'll say that for sure. Thank you to DC Watts.

Kimothy: 26:46

I think this is my favorite segment right now. Most people don’t  thank anybody or anything, they just tell me what their influences are, but I really love hearing why. So thank you for thanking them. 

Rebecca: 27:05

Of course, and there's so many more, there's so many. I wouldn't know anything from anything if it weren't for all my teachers.

Kimothy: 27:18

Do you have any advice for somebody just starting out with their practice?

Rebecca: 27:23

Yes, I think one thing I've always loved is we have some local witchcraft stores in our town Raven and Crone is one of them and Calamus and Honey is the other and when I first started teaching witchcraft classes in 2015, we had so many classes and gatherings at that store at Raven and Crone, and they barely charged me anything to teach there and it was just very accessible and I met so many people being at that store at those events. Get involved in a local store or teaching space if you can and try to go, take some in-person classes and just meet the people in your area.

Kimothy: 28:07

I have not taught any classes, but I definitely go to them locally and I absolutely agree.

Rebecca: 28:13

Definitely, it's even me teaching others I've met, you know. I remember I met somebody who's actually now my therapist at a class of mine and that was an emblem of an author that I love and I won't mention cause I don't want to out him. But I was like, oh hey, is that this necklace, this symbol? And he's like, oh yeah, you know about that. And we instantly connected. And then I found out later he was a therapist and I was like, oh, I know who I want to see if he'll see me. And it was so great. He's been my therapist for almost eight years, yeah.

Kimothy: 28:46

I'm going to soapbox a little bit and say that, with all the bullshit that's happening in this country right now, y'all really need to develop local community, not just... I know online community is great. I talk about my online community all the time. But you have to- right now we need local, actual face-to-face community too. Please go out and meet people.

Rebecca: 29:17

Yeah, especially one thing I've learned after going through the hurricane and experiencing the you know total destruction of my livelihood, which was, you know, I make most of my living tattooing. Teaching for me is probably a quarter of my living and it's just hard to teach enough classes to really make money. You know, make money, you know, and um, watching everything, I and my whole library, all of my work tools, so many of my personal possessions just utterly destroyed by mud and water. I was so touched by the amount of people who I know don't have a lot, sending me books, sending me money, sending me medicine, sending me herbs, sending me cookbooks, like anything that they had around that they had extra of. And I was like you know what FEMA did not help me at all. You know who helped me? My community and people I know and don't know. And I was so floored and I felt so cared for and I was able then to care for others because I was being cared for and ripple that out, and I think you're so right and it's okay to be on care for others because I was being cared for and ripple that out, and I think you're so right and it's okay to be on that soapbox, because I couldn't have done that if I hadn't invested the social capital by, you know, making meals for friends who have just had babies, um, helping people clean stuff up, who you know their property is is getting messy and they're like hey, can anyone come help with a workday today? I need to put a fence up or clear up some trash. You know, those are the things we need to do. 

Kimothy: 30:39

Oh, my heart hurts. 

Rebecca: 30:40

Yeah, it's a real big bummer, but I honestly, today and this past couple weeks, I have felt much better, much more hopeful, and we're so close to reopening our new space. So I'm feeling like I'm moving through that destruction grief.

Kimothy: 31:07

Well good. Now that you've seen what it's like to talk to me and and seeing the questions and answer the questions and thought about them, yeah, who do you think would be interesting to have on the show to to talk to me?

Rebecca: 31:19

Honestly, I would talk to Sarah Lynch-Thomason. She leads public ritual, she teaches songs. She's a researcher, a folklorist, a historian. You probably could get her to sing for you. She's a lovely voice. I think Sarah would be an excellent person to reach out to, and she's been my practicing sister since we were 18 years old and she is my sister in all ways aside from genetics.

Kimothy: 31:46

That just squoze my heart, because I could hear you hesitate and think about it and say, yeah, I heard the yes.

Rebecca: 31:53

Oh, I love that there's so many people too. My other person I'd recommend for you is Baylin Lavor, my tattoo mentor and my work wife. She is the person who taught me how to tattoo and she's the owner of the hoodoo shop Calamus and Honey, alongside Jonathan Moat, and she's also a fantastic person to talk to and one of the most powerful, humble and subtle practitioners I know personally.

Kimothy: 32:21

All these names are delicious.

Rebecca: 32:23

I know she's got the best name.

Kimothy: 32:27

Is there anything else you wanted to bring up? Any questions you had for me? Any any business stuff happening? Are you doing any appearances?

Rebecca: 32:34

Not at the moment, but I am putting a new book out this year. I don't know if I'm supposed to talk about it yet, so I'll. I think it's fine, we're going to go. It's going to be like you'll be able to see it online soon. It's basically my personal herbal notes and I actually got to illustrate this one, which is very special for me. I've never gotten to illustrate any of my books, but I will say the Simon and Schuster who I'm doing this second book with. This is my fourth book overall, but my second one from Simon and Schuster. They provide incredible artists and I could never have created my first book, wild Witchcraft, without them, especially Louisa Judd, who's known as Swan Bones on Instagram. She's- 

Kimothy: 33:01

These names!

Rebecca: 33:02

 Oh yeah, she's wonderful. But I'm very excited for my new herbal to come out and we'll come out in October and also I'm going to be doing online classes. My partner, Ddaniel Gingras, is going to be filming and editing my classes for me this year. So please watch out for video classes and if you'd like to take one with me. Rowan and Sage is an online herbal school and I have an introduction to Appalachian folk medicine class, always available for purchase on that website. 

Kimothy: 33:56

Love it. So I have two things left that I ask all my guests. Thing number one recommend something to the listeners. It doesn't have to be witchy or magical or just whatever you're into this week. Recommend it.

Rebecca: 34:08

Oh yeah. So one thing I love is taking online classes, and I treated myself to a few classes this year and I really recommend, if you are a witch and you work, you know with plants, take just plain old botany and plant identification classes and things like that from non-magical practitioners who are botanists and ecologists, or take an ecology class or go on a plant walk with a local botanist. Our local arboretum offers them and they're just so valuable because you can read that stuff in books but you can't really read. How do you identify a beech tree in a book? It's so much easier to learn from a real person. So I recommend getting out there and either doing a video class online with someone or going and really standing with them in real life and looking at the plant world and the more than human world around you so you can name all the buddies that you're seeing. Love it.

Kimothy: 35:09

I really need to do that because I'm not from Arizona. Nothing I grew up is like here. I super need to.

Rebecca: 35:20

Yeah, that's amazing. There's so many beautiful things For where you live in the Southwest. I would recommend there's a website from the late herbalist Michael Moore not the filmmaker the Southwestern School of Botanical Medicine. Their website has tons of free resources on desert plants. 

Kimothy: 35:33

Nice, thank you!

Rebecca: 35:34

 Yeah, and they're downloadable as PDF so you can print them out and make your own little study notebooks. 

Kimothy: 35:48

That is cool! The last thing that I ask of my guest is please tell me a story. It can be a story you heard from childhood, something silly that happened, or whatever. I just like stories.

Rebecca: 36:00

Tell you a story. Oh, my gosh, I'll tell you a good Appalachian witch story if you want. Okay, I'm teaching a class this next month called the witch lore in Appalachia and I love collecting stories about witches. So this one's called the rabbit witch and the bullet. So there was a young man who lived down on beans Creek in Beulah Dean, North Carolina, and he wanted to go hunting on his neighbor's land but she absolutely forbid it. She did not want people to trespass on her land and did not want anyone shooting guns at the very least. So he used to trespass frequently to go hunt rabbits on her land. One day, unfortunately for him, she was standing outside her cabin as he snuck around the edge of her property at dawn to go hunt rabbits and she looked at him and saw him with his gun and she knew immediately what he was doing and she said you are not going to get a single rabbit today. And he always got a rabbit. He was a very good shot. And he said you, stupid old lady, I, you know, screw you basically. And he went off and she went back in her house and he went hunting. So all day he actually saw a ton of rabbits, but every time he would shoot. At one, the bullet would miss. Every time. He got seven or eight shots. Every single one missed when he thought it was for sure, a sure shot. And at the end of the day the sun started to set. He walked back down the mountain, past her cabin, and he saw her standing there and she looked at him and her hand was full of something and she held her hand out to him and she opened it and she had seven bullets in her hand and she said don't you ever come back here and hunt my rabbits again. And he left and he never returned. 

Kimothy: 37:44

I love it. I thought you were going to say that there was an eighth bullet she was holding onto for him.

Rebecca: 37:48

I know, right? No, so that story I've actually collected that story from you. Know a lot of different places in Avery County and you can see the story of the witch that turns herself into a rabbit or, you know, gets caught, can catch the bullets from hunters that are trespassing on her land. She's usually a lone woman and I have met people in real life who claim that this person, this happened to them and their family. This is a story that they know for sure happened and I've also collected it from you. Know the 1920s and 30s, so it's a piece of living folklore that both definitely happened and never happened.

Kimothy: 38:24

I love it, yeah well, thanks so much for being on the show. I loved having you. I love the story.

Rebecca: 38:30

I'm glad.

Kimothy: 38:31

And everybody be sure to go down and show notes, click and follow and I will see you probably over on Instagram. Okay, Bye!

Rebecca. 

Rebecca: 38:48

Yes.

Kimothy: 38:49

Welcome to Hive House.

Rebecca: 38:50

Oh, thank you.

Kimothy: 38:52

I have some cards in my hand and I'm shuffling them. So say when and I'll pull you one. When. Oops! Well, that's not the one I was gonna pull, but it leaped out. So what's the best birthday gift you've ever received?

Rebecca: 39:16

The best birthday gift I've ever received… [fades out] [fades in] ...spicebush twig tea, a birch twig tea, a birch twig tea or something like that, some stick-boiled water that we love, and probably cornbread. Let's be real. Gluten-free of course. 

Kimothy: 39:30

What's the worst thing you've ever eaten? [fades out]

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