Unlocking Witchcraft and Shamanism With Sabine and Hexenhaus

Step into the mystical world of Sabine Green, a hereditary witch and visionary behind Hexenhaus, a metaphysical store in El Paso, Texas. Discover the rich tapestry of her spiritual journey, deeply rooted in her family's connections to the Order of Christian Mystics and Romani heritage. Sabine's candid anecdotes and insights shed light on the modern practice of witchcraft and shamanism, especially within the unique cultural setting of El Paso. Her discussion on the evolution of terms like "witch" and "shamanic practitioner" will challenge your perceptions and offer a fresh perspective on embracing such identities professionally.

Uncover the secrets to forging your own spiritual path while avoiding the traps of rigid teachings and cultural insensitivity. Learn from Sabine's experiences balancing a full-time job with spiritual practices and managing a thriving metaphysical business in a diverse community. The innovative concept of "Speed Dating Religions" is introduced, encouraging exploration and greater understanding of various faiths. This chapter is a must-listen for anyone seeking guidance on navigating the complex landscape of modern witchcraft.

Connect with nature and discover the simple yet profound tools that bring joy and balance to spiritual practice. Sabine talks about the renewing power of nature, the significance of tarot readings, and the spiritual companionship of animal guides. She also provides valuable advice on creating and caring for a shamanic drum, and shares her personal journey of rising from the ashes. Whether you're a seasoned practitioner or just starting out, Sabine's advice on trusting oneself and finding joy in the journey is sure to inspire.

Follow Sabine here: instagram.com/the_hexenhaus

Chapters

• 0:04 Hereditary Witch and Shamanic Practitioner
• 20:40 Exploring Paths in Modern Witchcraft
• 35:39 Exploring Tools and Practices in Witchcraft
• 54:29 Navigating Paths in Modern Witchcraft
• 1:06:17 Connecting With Your Average Witch Podcast

Transcript

KimHost

00:04

Welcome back to Your Average Witch, where every Tuesday we talk about witch life, witch stories, and sometimes a little witchcraft. Your Average Witch is brought to you by Crepuscular Conjuration. This week I'm talking to Sabine, creator of the shop Hexenhaus in El Paso, Texas. We talked a little about the various terms used for the Romani people, shamanism, and life in the desert. As a reminder, if you're looking for a necklace to remind you to love yourself, or a gift to give another witch, check out my shop, Clever Kim's Curios. Get a spell box with ingredients and tools to do a complete spell, witchy jewelry, and even altar tools, at crepuscularconjuration.com. And if you want to meet your new witchy best friends, come join us in Hive House at facebook.com/groups/hivehouse. Now let's get to the stories. Sabine, hello, welcome to the show. 

SabineGuest

01:02

Hi Kim. Thank you so very much. 

KimHost

01:06

Would you please introduce yourself and let everybody know who you are and what you do, and where they can find you. 

SabineGuest

01:20

Absolutely. My name is Sabine, Sabine Green and I am a hereditary witch. I have monetized my services and gifts and my metaphysical store is in El Paso, Texas, called Hexenhaus. You can find me online at thehexenhaus.com, and also my socials, @the_hexenhaus, and @readings.by.sabine. 

Kim Host

01:48

Cool.

Sabine Guest

01:50

Yeah, thank you. I'm also on Google. That's where most of my people find me, and I've been in this community well all of my life. I am an El Paso native.

KimHost

02:01

Do you love Chico's? 

SabineGuest

02:04

Oh, that's a loaded question and the answer is my taste buds do, but my system does not.

Kim Host

02:10

Oh, that makes sense.

Sabine Guest

02:12

And so it's not someplace that I frequent or even recommend to people with picky stomachs like my own. 

KimHost

02:31

So what's it mean to you when you call yourself a witch, if you do so? 

Sabine Guest

02:34

Witch is an interesting term and we have evolved over the centuries with it, which I'm sure you know listening to your podcast. Many people have referenced that. But yes, I do call myself a witch. I do feel like it was actually a terminology that was bestowed upon me when I brought my business back here to El Paso. I was in New Mexico, just slightly north, and things there are slightly different as far as the pagan community and flavor of witchcraft is concerned. Practitioner meaning that a lot of my practice predates what we're most of the time modernly calling witchcraft, which is organized magic and prayer work, and shamanism is more animism and non-organized tribal community healing. So that's a huge mouthful and I can get a little bit wordy, so please stop me if that's the case, but shamanic practitioner is the term that I like to go by because it encompasses all that I do. I will say specifically, since I have opened up my metaphysical store, Hexenhaus, I have really had to embrace again the term witch, and I have someone that calls me a professional witch, and I just love that because it means that you know I am magic, but I do it in a way that is a full time career. 

KimHost

04:38

It is pretty cool. 

SabineGuest

04:55

Yeah, I chuckled at first and you know we kind of struggle with things like am I really this imposter syndrome? Should I dive into this? But yes, absolutely, based on both historically being a witch and then the modernized term of carrying the metaphysics behind it. Yes, I am both.

KimHost

05:15

Would you say that you have any family history with any sort of magical practice or what? What was your spiritual upbringing like? 

SabineGuest

05:31

So I grew up in a household with practitioners and I'd like to say that I am a hereditary witch, meaning that I do carry gifts that have come through my family lineage. So I feel I'm very lucky in that manner, because a lot of people are still trying to find their way, that have gone into metaphysics and witchcraft. Both my father and his mother and her sisters were very, very gifted to include being part of the Order of Christian Mystics, even working with big names like Edgar Cayce, and doing a lot of work at that time, back in the 1800s and early 1900s, using things like the Masonic Temple to find a home for your spiritual gift, your clairsentient or clairaudient abilities and my father was a visionary. He could see. We used things like speaking boards, popular term, Ouija board or spirit board, to do a lot of the divination and we were encouraged to explore. So my story is somewhat backwards to a lot of other modern witches in that I had the support from my family to stay in that gift, to keep it open to practice, and it's funny because I tell people that our biggest fights between myself and my parents were often about me wanting to fit in and trying to go to church and dedicating to become Christian, and my parents were both adamantly opposed to any kind of organized religion. So I did try on the Christian shoe for a while, but it was a shoe too small and I value some of their teachings but have gone back to my roots to honor plants, animals, minerals, earth, the planets and, with that said, the gift of sight, as we call it in my family. On my dad's side, my youngest brother has it as well, the middle sibling and the eldest sibling do not. They don't carry it, neither of the older ones. And on my mom's side she also had very good intuition. She told us stories about our grandfather being from the Romani and coming from I don't like to use the word, but gypsy culture, and it's interesting because my family today, that's still over in Europe, does not want to talk about any Eastern European blood that might be there. So that's still very alive and well with the hiding what you are. 

KimHost

09:20

That's wild to think about. I don't think people realize that sort of undercurrent of racism against the Romani people. 

SabineGuest

09:33

They don't. And it took me a long time as well, because, you know, here in this country we use the term gypsy as though it were no big deal. 

KimHost

09:46

It makes me cringe when I hear it. 

SabineGuest

09:48

Yes, me too, and here in the store I often tell people you know, we don't use that term here, please use Romani instead. And they say well why. There's nothing wrong with the term gypsy and I'm like, so it's the European version of the N-word, can we not use it? 

KimHost

10:10

“It just means bohemian.”  Then say bohemian! 

SabineGuest

10:14

Right, right and you know, based on the umbrella term, paganism or pagan, which means from the hills or hill dweller, and it denotes this nomadic culture, which is exactly what the Romani were and, exactly as you said, the term bohemian as well. 

KimHost

10:41

Well. Yuck.

SabineGuest

11:00

I remember seeing some of them and my cousins that I was with encouraged me not to interact because there still is that that whole. You know they'll steal from you, they don't have good ethics, but really that's. That is not the teachings. It really really isn't. 

KimHost

11:26

Well, let's flash forward to today, here and now. Can you share any of your consistent rituals that you do? Can you share any of your practice with us? 

SabineGuest

11:56

Absolutely, and so one of the big things that I like to tell people is that shamanism isn't so much you know, quote unquote high magic, as much as it is a daily practice. And I think that a lot of you know witches self-labeled witches are starting to see it as a lifestyle, modern practices that I do. Most of the time it's daily offerings of some manner, whether that is burning incense or pouring water or wine into a sacred space, sitting and doing some prayer work. I generally light candles on the daily as well. Candles are a nice focus and they are a modern part of daily ritual. 

I'm not so much a moon person, so I actually go by the seasons rather than by the moons and I do at the very least four big Sabbath or seasonal rituals that are generally public. I pick and choose who goes, and a lot of that is very handsy, very crafty. It's creating sacred space. It is maybe purging things, mindsets and getting rid of what doesn't serve us at the time, and shamanism is really based in kind of that psychology of heal thyself, and so this is a lot of journey work, which journey is the term that we use for meditation or prayer work. So we journey within to grapple with the shadow side of ourself and then heal it, whether that's acknowledging it or getting rid of it. And so the thing about the way that I practice is that ritual comes up for me when it needs to and it's a very matter of fact. Well, I need to do this today, or well, I need to make sure that I have time on Sunday that I don't do anything else but this mindful practice and I journey within to try to find the answer, because the macrocosm and the microcosm are together and they that duality. Our answers are within. So that's the practice and that's actually what I consider to be ritual. So, hopefully, that kind of sort of answers what you were? Okay, it's not really high magic, I mean, I, I can do that. 

KimHost

14:43

I don't do that at all, so. 

SabineGuest

14:46

Okay, I did do that in my beginnings, in my beginning practices, and was in fact in my original clan or group we don't call them covens, but my original clan. I was the ceremonial leader and, yes, I can make it as complicated as you want, with tons of pomp and circumstance, but that's good for milestones, that's not good for every day. I don't ever want that. I love it when it's appropriate, but that's not often.

KimHost

15:22

It sounds exhausting to me. I just want to go out in the garden, pick up some leaves, maybe a rock, and come up here and do business. 

SabineGuest

15:29

Yeah, and that's the thing about this as a lifestyle, I think you know it's accessible and there is no conduit needed. There's no in-between person or pastor or minister. That is absolutely needed for you to connect with your guides. That's what I love about what we do in witchcraft. 

KimHost

16:02

How would you say witchcraft has changed your life? 

SabineGuest

16:07

Oh, in vastly different ways, but, I think the biggest thing is it's asked me, tasked me with looking within and learning to trust myself and my truth. Most of the time, practitioners. I have found that true practitioners are very mindful of who they are and they're searching for not only their truth but the truth, valuing that, um, and kind of that, that in between space, those edgy people that are also searching for the same thing. I was able to find my tribe, so to speak, find my people from witchcraft. Um, like I said, I had tried on other forms of faith and none of it seemed to fit. So I went back to just mindful practice, as I had grown up with, and then layered on modern shamanism with it. 

Kim Host

17:18

That's cool. 

Sabine Guest

17:21

Yeah, I also think that I did a little bit of advocacy work for the pagan community at one point and that taught me to stand up for what I believe in. That we get into today. But standing up, you know, picking up the sword when it's needed for yourself and others super important, especially in modern times. 

KimHost

17:53

Jesus H yes. 

SabineGuest

17:57

Don't know that I want to go into politics, but that's what I'm going to say about that is. 

KimHost

18:01

Oh my God, well, that's immediately where my mind went about. That is… oh my god, well, that's immediately where my mind went. I can't let me. I had my, I can't… let me not have a stroke this morning. So what's the biggest motivator in your practice, and has it changed since you first started out? 

SabineGuest

18:20

You know it, it has changed. At first it was more ego-based, but it still has the same foundation, which is healing myself, brings healing within my circle, my community, and then my world, and then my world. And so that was, that was the. The big thing for me is learning that healing work is not about the I and it's not about the me and any practitioners that are out there that I see on social media saying me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. My eyes roll back in my head so far that they hit my backbone and I'm like you know, you have a, you might be doing some healing work, but you haven't gotten to the point where you're selfless, and that's the big practice and it's a struggle to stay there. And so, yeah, it's, it's taking that ego out. That's where my practice has has has changed is that it's always been about the healing work and understanding, but now, with a little bit more psychology and training tools under my belt in the last 25 years, it's changed and I don't need to take the credit, although sometimes it's nice to hear. I don't need to take the credit, although sometimes it's nice to hear, hey, you did really good work, or I felt that to my core, but anymore it's trusting that your intentions are really truly what's pushing things forward. 

KimHost

20:22

You made me think about what I feel about those things. 

SabineGuest

20:28

It's hard because we're evolving as human beings and we're evolving as practitioners. People come in here all the time and they ask you know, how do I learn to do what you do? And I said you just have to get started. 

KimHost

20:51

Yeah, what's the first book I need to buy? That's not really how it works, but here's one that works, I guess, right. 

SabineGuest

21:00

And one of the big things in the community that I have found that I literally rail against this, I fight against it all the time is the people that say you must dedicate to my way because my way is the right way. Well, if you found a teacher, that's saying that you have found somebody that's still in ego and although you can study and learn things underneath them, they're probably not an avatar or they're probably not as divinely connected as perhaps someone that has done their ego studies. 

KimHost

21:48

I try to say this is how I do it, let's figure out how you do it. 

SabineGuest

21:54

Yes, because there's many paths up the mountain and that's how I do it. 

KimHost

22:00

It really hurts my feelings because I really like being right, but I do try to control it a little bit. 

SabineGuest

22:11

Are you a fire sign? 

KimHost

22:14

I am an Aries moon. 

SabineGuest

22:17

That works. Aries sun here. So nice to meet you!

Kim Host

22:20

I’m a Taurus sun, Aries moon, and she's singing now.

Sabine Guest

22:24

So you're, you're a, you're a one, two relationship between your, your projection, and your, what you bring in and what you project out. 

KimHost

22:43

Whew, I will fist fight you for a cheeseburger. 

SabineGuest

22:46

Yes, abso-frickin-lutely, ma'am, and the cheeseburger is important to the Taurus. Yep and it probably has really good cheese on it.

KimHost

23:02

It does, it sure does, and some avocados and bacon. 

SabineGuest

23:05

That's right. It's all about the luxuries. 

KimHost

23:12

What would you say your biggest struggle is with your practice?

SabineGuest

23:18

Whew, I think I think there's two questions or two ways to answer that. My personal practice is finding the time to do it, and that's because I have a full-time job and I have a full-time business and I have other aspects of my life as well that I'm not giving up. So I'm doing everything all at once as a typical Aries, going about 100 miles an hour in 50 different directions. But secondly, the biggest struggle in my practice as a quote unquote professional witch is getting people to understand that there are more than one way to do things, and so nobody wants to talk about this. But I am a practitioner here in El Paso, texas. We're a border town, it's a beautiful melting pot, but it is very Hispanic or Latin-based and I am a white woman. I am first-generation American from Europe, first-generation American from Europe, and so people come in here and they want brujeria, and I tell them that I don't practice, that it's not my culture and it's not what I was trained to do, and so we have to have a conversation about how just because I practice something a little bit different doesn't mean that it's invalid. 

KimHost

25:04

Yeah, it doesn't work yeah. 

SabineGuest

25:06

Right, and then there becomes the whole cultural appropriation talk that comes in with that as well, so I love that.

KimHost

25:13

Yeah, do you really want me, a mayonnaise sandwich on Wonder Bread, to do that for you? 

SabineGuest

25:20

Right? And it's like I mean, could I go and train under somebody and learn how to do a classic limpia with an egg? Absolutely I could. I have a good friend that does it, but I'd prefer to. If that's what you want, I prefer to actually recommend you to her rather than take that on myself. You want to come here. This is what I've chosen to practice. And if you want a smudging and a drumming and kind of that circumpolar Northern European feel, I got you. 

KimHost

26:01

That's when that ego work comes in. Can you, do you have it in you to refer them to what they need? 

SabineGuest

26:07

Right, ooh, and that's a big thing that happens in this community with witch wars, and I think it's, I think it's everywhere. My reference point is here because that's where I'm from, but, uh, the witch wars are real and it's like you know, come on, don't, don't bad mouth my practice, I don't bad mouth yours yeah, unless I actually do something to you, just maybe chill a little bit. 

Kim Host

26:45

Just maybe chill a little bit.

Sabine Guest

26:48

Right. And Darlina and I talk about this quite often and, she's been on your show, that you know it's important to honor that there's choices for people that want to get into the community, and I tell my people all the time that come here for classes I'm like this is my way, exactly what you said earlier. This is my way of doing it. Please explore, Because it's kind of like speed dating. You've got to get out there. 

KimHost

27:15

Oh my gosh, you just gave me an Idea, I need to write that down. Holy shit, hold on, I have to write this down. 

SabineGuest

27:24

We used to do with the, in conjunction with the UU Church, which is the Unitarian Universalist Church. I was the faculty advisor for the pagan student union on the NMSU campus, for the Pagan Student Union on the NMSU campus, and we used to combine with them what we called Speed Dating Religions Night, and it was very well attended and each table had a minister from that particular faith and you got seven minutes with each round for a Q&A at each different table. It was so much fun.

KimHost

28:02

I want to do that at the event that I go to every year. 

SabineGuest

28:08

Oh, you totally should. 

KimHost

28:11

That's what I wrote down. 

SabineGuest

28:13

You totally should. So we've done it, where it's like almost like a panel discussion too, because when I was, I actually founded the Las Cruces Pagan Pride Day movement. Yeah, thank you, we used to do a panel discussion, and maybe you're more of an Aztecian and you're a classic Wiccan yeah, do it. 

KimHost

28:49

That was what I was going to do this year, and I changed it. 

SabineGuest

28:55

Well, maybe it's for next year then. 

KimHost

28:57

Yeah, I really wanted to teach this class that I've been planning since the first year I went, so finally, this is the year that I do that, but maybe next year I'll do that panel. 

SabineGuest

29:09

What- can I ask what the the event is? 

KimHost

29:13

It's called Anahata's Purpose. It is what Darlina is going to. You should come with us. You know I'm a big time pusher.

SabineGuest

29:16

It is on my bucket list. It's not happening this year, I can tell you that. But it is on my bucket list in the next three years to, so-

Kim Host

29:25

 I'll see you next year.

Sabine Guest

29:27

Okay, we'll make that happen. I'll manifest it starting now. 

Kim Host

29:30

I'm very pushy about Anahata’s Purpose.And the kind of food that I like. 

Sabine Guest

29:35

How many people are there?

KimHost

29:42

She keeps it limited to 400. 

SabineGuest

29:45

Okay, that's nice. 

KimHost

29:48

Yeah, she looked up and it's like evidence-based practice stuff. She looked up when you get the best experience, the best relationships and the best information, not recall where you keep it, and it was like these small groups, and so that's why she keeps it small. 

SabineGuest

30:13

I love that. Yeah, because the bigger ones, thousands of people, like Pantheacon in California, which is now under a different name Forgive me, I forget the name, but they really outgrew their effectiveness in many ways. So I'm glad they've restructured it. 

KimHost

30:36

God, thinking of so many people. I don't want to think about that. Okay, let's talk about imposter syndrome. That's so much more fun. 

SabineGuest

31:00

This is what I love about modern witchcraft, which is what your podcast is about. It is a self-labeled, self-dedication path and that path, working, is supposed to be validating us on a daily basis. I am now okay, as a half-century cranky witch, to say yes, this is really me. But imposter syndrome when I was getting started was so prevalent for me and I would have to sit and go back through, and one of the things that helped me was I I made a spiritual Vitae or a spiritual resume, and this is so scholastic, so like academic, because that's where I come from is academia and so I made this, this spiritual Vitae, and I would return to that and look at it to go, yeah, you did that, you took that class and that class and you've actually worked with this person and this person, and so it was gleaning my validity from somewhere else, and that forced me to look inside. I think imposter syndrome is really combated for me by saying I don't need exterior validation for what I do, because my belief system says I'm connected to spirit and the universe. I don't need somebody to tell me I'm doing it right. Yeah, I don't. The ridiculousness of that Right, of that right. But like we're in a culture that says we have to have this whole resume with all these great people that we have trained under and we have to have all this paperwork and yada, yada, but do you? We don’t.

KimHost

33:17

Having passed that half century mark, I also don't give a crap. 

SabineGuest

33:22

So good for you I don't need any of that. The 50 plus space is a no fucks to give, and I love it. 

KimHost

33:33

Let me tell you yeah, I started wearing bathing suits and going to the pool again because, guess what, I don't give a shit, if you care if my I shaved my legs or not. I don't care, I'm just getting in the pool so my hips don’t lock up.

SabineGuest

33:47

There you go, I am doing me. Yeah, there's a there's a psychologist on Instagram that her handle is silverdisobedience and I freaking love the things that she says. 

KimHost

34:08

That is a fun name. 

SabineGuest

34:09

Yeah, that's what drew me to her. I was like oh, you probably have some really valid things to share for older women. Let's check you out. 

KimHost

34:20

Oh, that's where the silver comes. I don't know what I was thinking. Yeah, I was thinking that's just a step below gold. I don't know. 

SabineGuest

34:29

Wow, I mean, if we get that gold mark, wow. 

KimHost

34:38

What brings you the most joy in your practice?

SabineGuest

34:41

Wow, what brings you the most joy in your practice? Again, I think that's kind of twofold. As a professional witch, it's seeing the evolution of the healing work from others, from my clients, and for them to say I've released myself from this, I have progressed past this, and I always tell people I'm just a gatekeeper, I'm going to point you where the gate is and I'm going to hold it open, but only you can go through it, and so I don't take credit for their healing work, but I can perhaps be a gatekeeper for them. But the second bit of joy is within, and I think the modern term is you might laugh earthing. And I laughed when I first heard earthing. I was like what the heck is that? It's grounding basically. 

35:39

But for me, the biggest ritual, the biggest joy, comes from the disconnect to visit my mountains and to draw from spirits of place there. I always take my dogs with me and we just have a day of disconnect and beauty and I look for the messages in nature. That is the most renewing thing, and I don't care what season it is, it is the absolute most renewing thing for me. And when I'm out of balance and haven't visited my mountains for a while, things go awry and I know, okay, I really at least have to take a day and go. If not two, that's my joy. 

KimHost

36:29

That sounds so nice. 

SabineGuest

36:33

I love it and you know we live in the desert here in El Paso, Texas, and it's blistering hot and there's lots of stickers and to go. 

KimHost

36:44

Yeah, everything outside wants to kill you. Just the air, the air. 

SabineGuest

36:52

Yes, absolutely. Last month it was in triple digits, I think, for 28 out of the 30 days I just, I just can't and like and on of that hot flashes now with menopause, oh no, oh, no, forget it, I'm out. 

KimHost

37:08

I remember that I could hang my clothes outside and it would dry faster than if I put them in the dryer. And yes, I tested it. Oh my gosh. 

SabineGuest

37:17

Yeah, and you're no longer in El Paso, is that correct? 

KimHost

37:22

Nope, but I'm in Tucson. I’m still in the desert, still hot.

SabineGuest

37:25

Yeah, you went into the frying pan from the fire. Tucson's lovely as well. There's some really beautiful practitioners over there also. 

KimHost

37:39

I'm meeting them. 

SabineGuest

37:41

That's fantastic. I wish you all the best. 

KimHost

37:51

Thank you. What's something you did early on in your practice that you don't do anymore, and why don't you? 

Sabine Guest

37:59

I think that started with earlier I said how it's not high magic. I would overcomplicate everything from study, overstudying. I poured over the books and this was literally before the age of the Internet, where you could just Google. Goddess, google wasn't even in existence at that point, and so it was pouring over the books and thank the gods, for you know the classic Scott Cunningham, who was a prolific author back then, and, uh, Kristin Madden and Ewan McCoy. There were so many beautiful writings about modern witchcraft and I think I just complicated everything. Couldn't do the ritual without having this tool or this herb, and so I have to delay it. And then, oh my gosh, you know it's going to be the full moon and so I'm gonna have to wait till next month to do this. But I really feel in it now and anymore, you know, prayer work for me is just taking a moment alone and going universe, bring me this. I need to manifest this, show me the way, and that sometimes is the only part of the ritual is those few words. I don't need the candle, I don't need the herbs, I just need the mindfulness, and it doesn't work all the time, but I think it was over complicated. 

KimHost

39:36

My car doesn't work all the time. Nothing works all the time, yeah that's a fact. 

SabineGuest

39:45

Yes, I think that the early part of having all the tools and I tell a lot of people that come in and want to do an apprenticeship you don't have to buy all the tools but they're good to get started with. Eventually, all you need is yourself and your intuition. 

KimHost

40:04

People want to act like because it doesn't work. Sometimes it doesn't exist. My cable doesn't work all the time, but it still exists. 

SabineGuest

40:12

Yes, and the thing that I remind people is maybe it's not working for you right now because you're not meant to access it. Maybe you're meant to do this differently. And then they go oh well, will you shuffle the cards and pull another one for me? And I'm like we can ask the same question 50 different ways, You're still going to get very similar answers. We can ask the same question 50 different ways, You're still going to get very similar answers. So that's what I laugh about. I do a lot of card readings and El Paso is a place that loves their tarot cards, but card reading wasn't my first form, or even second form, of divination. I had to learn it to open the shop here, and that all those memes that are out there about you know reshuffle and answer again. I was like those can't be true. Those can't be true, but for sure they're true. It's people like can I ask it a different way? Yep, you sure can. We're still going to get the same answer, sweetheart. 

KimHost

41:25

It's still going to be “Don't date him.” 

SabineGuest

41:34

Yep, the answer is still going to be no. We're just going to reframe it in a different word. 

KimHost

41:46

What is your favorite tool? It doesn't have to be a physical object. 

Sabine Guest

41:50

Oh, I would say the backbone of my work tool-wise, is my drum. Every shamanic practitioner, almost every shamanic practitioner, creates a drum and they birth their drum in ceremony and then it becomes our diagnostic tool and our tool to get us into the spirit realm. It's our catalyst for going from this state of mind to what they call the shamanic altered state of mind and literally my sweet drum is my favorite tool. And then the spirit realm. It's definitely my animal guide, my absolute biggest supporter over there when I go to do manifestation work on the other side. 

KimHost

42:47

My husband just went to a drum making class on the last Sunday. So now we've got a drum curing in the bedroom. 

SabineGuest

42:57

And they are just. There's so many things you can do with them, so many things, and it's a very, very powerful and comforting tool. So don't forget to feed it. I don't know if the practitioner told you, but you should always feed your drum before you use it, either with cornmeal or sacred smoke. 

KimHost

43:23

I have no idea because I did not go to the class, but I'll help him. 

SabineGuest

43:29

He's probably like, yeah, that woman's crazy. 

Kim Host

43:33

Well, he's married to a witch, so…

Sabine Guest

43:38

Yeah, maybe not, and he went to the drum class. 

KimHost

43:43

Yeah, what is something you wish was discussed more in the witch community? 

SabineGuest

43:51

Oh, let's see, I actually made a list of these things and one of the the top one, you and I have already discussed, and that's cultural appropriation. And I think this harkens back to being a minority, and of european descent, in that, uh, there is a large movement, at least here, to call out people as colonizers. And I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa whoa, I'm not a colonizer, I actually value what you do and who you are, but my family didn't come here, they weren't part of that. So we often have to have a little bit of a talk about grace and the collective, and so validating each other's heritage within our practice is really big, and that's part of the cultural appropriation. 

And then the other thing is what a long time ago, was coined the pagan poverty mindset. And this being, you know, you shouldn't ever sell your gift, you shouldn't sell magic, you shouldn't sell any services. Sell any services. And while I don't agree with getting rich off of it, if we go back to a tribal community anywhere in the globe, the wise women and men, the shamans of the tribes, the medicine people of the tribes were cared for by the tribe yeah, they were supported, Correct. 

Kim Host

45: 40

That’s payment!

Sabine Guest

45:47

That's payment. It is payment and modern payment. Our modern currency is money. I often tell people if you don't want to pay for a healing, are you willing to pay my electric bill, Because ultimately, or bring me groceries. 

KimHost

46:00

Can I come live in your back yard?

SabineGuest

46:01

Yeah, my electric bill, because ultimately bring me groceries. Yeah, you know, bring me a walmart gift card if you don't want to to do that, or here's my shopping list.

KimHost

46:08

Will I take a chicken? Yes, I will, yes I will take the chicken.

Sabine Guest

46:12

Absolutely. Dead or alive. If it's dead, I would prefer that it you know not be old, correct, just just just have just have done it freshly, not one from two months ago that you left in the yard, right? 

Or the roadkill. Although I'm, oh gosh, as a shamanic practitioner, I used to have this um bumper sticker and it said shamanic practitioner, I break for roadkill because I pick up. I pick up the pieces, parts, and then, you know, do my prayer, work and honor that animal.

Kim Host

46:54

One of the things that I have on my shop sometimes is that I recycle. Let me finger quote, “recycling nature's discards into art.”

SabineGuest

46:59

Oh heck. Yes, that's beautiful, and so do you do a lot of oddities. I guess they call it oddities work. 

KimHost

47:08

I used to, I love it Like I had a refrigerator full of beetles.

Sabine Guest 47:10

Yeah, good things same girl, same. I had all these claws and paws and bones and skulls.

Kim Host 47:30

I still have them all over the room. It's just that that I'm not doing anything to sell them right now.

Sabine Guest

47:38

Gotcha gotcha. But, like going back to that question you had, I wish that our witchy community would get into the process of taking care of their elders, their wise people, their community leaders, rather than setting them up for criticism and failure. We need to care for those of us that are out in the front line rather than criticize them. 

KimHost

48:14

Not just in the witch community, in the American society, in the United States society as a whole.

SabineGuest

48:22

Yep. 

KimHost

48:23

I agree. 

SabineGuest

48:24

Yep, and I say every day. There's a reason why we don't have good choices for leadership in this country and it's because what we do to our leaders. 

KimHost

48:35

Yep, yep. 

SabineGuest

48:38

I did enough advocacy work, for it was about a good 10 years between being the advisor for the pagan student union on campus and validating things like pagan holy days and being able to take time off in in the academic system, and then pagan pride day, uh, and getting the city to allow us to rent a park for a ritual and learning or teaching not learning, but teaching people that we're not here to do bad things and the whole process was very meaningful and interesting. But eventually, when people start criticizing you know why didn't you do it this way? I'm like, well, where were you? Yeah, where were you to help? Come on, no armchair activists here, get up, get up!

Kim Host

50:00

Think about the three biggest influences on your practice, whether it's people or books or some whatever a theory that you really liked and grabbed onto. Thank them for the influence they have on your practice. 

SabineGuest

50:04

I think the first person would have to be my dad, and I wished that he had stepped into the role of teaching me his practice more. I lost him in my early 20s and I feel like there was a lot of wasted time there because some of the things that he talked about that he'd experienced as a practitioner and really he was hidden, because in his generation you couldn't say, oh, I've had a vision, or I prayed to my gods, and especially being a military man, oh, lord Right. Yeah, he was a very decorated war veteran and an officer, and he certainly couldn't divulge any of that information there, and so I wish I could go back in time and pick his brain about how he did those things and how he framed um and maybe watered down his practice so that it was palatable to his men in his company that he was commanding, and he was very proud that he was able to save more lives, particularly keep his men very, very safe in first line battle. So that's huge. I would like to be able to thank him for that and talk about that. I think one of my big modern day people would have to be a therapist. That became a friend of mine and he's retired now We'll call him RJ, and RJ was an absolutely brilliant man. I met him when he was getting his doctorate in psychology and he was a very mindful practitioner. One of the things that I would love to thank him for is the permission to pause and the permission to self-validate, because prior to that aha moment with him, I was constantly seeking external validation for what I did, and so that external validation no longer really serves who I am at this time. So I have to acknowledge, um, both of those men and I I think it's curious that both of them are men and I do a lot of women, uh, empowerment work. Now, in my modern practice, the third biggest influence would probably have to be the practices of Sandra Ingerman, who is a modern shaman in Santa Fe. Fortunately, I've never met her in person, but I am an avid reader of her books and listen to her YouTube videos as well, and she's an expert on soul retrieval and that is a big part of my healing practice, and her work on soul retrieval, as well as ceremony, has been life changing for me and practice changing for me, and I'm in gratitude that she's able to share some of those mystery teachings in in an academic way that's accessible to many. 

KimHost

54:19

Nice. 

SabineGuest

54:22

Nice. Yeah, I could go on, there's more. We'll stick with that. 

KimHost

54:29

What advice do you have for new practitioners? 

SabineGuest

54:36

Advice I have for new practitioners two things Trust yourself. You're not batshit crazy. When you hear that voice, that's more than likely your guardian angel or spirit animal or saying, hey, slow the fuck down or do it this way, and so the magic's within. That's first. Then I'm going to say explore, because magic is about wonder and it's about diversity. It's all the colors in the prism. So dedicate to doing many different things before you dedicate to doing one thing, and the exploration and the wonderment of practices needs to come first. Don't take yourself so serious. Dabble in many different things. Have fun. Yes, yes, because I really do believe there's a lot of humor in the spirit realm, um, and, and we take it way too serious. I really do believe there's a lot of humor in the spirit realm, and, and we take it way too serious. 

Kim Host

55:49

Who do you think I should have on the show? 

Sabine Guest

55:52

There's, the first person that comes to mind, and I was actually speaking with her this morning whether she'd be open to it, a fellow practitioner in Detroit. Her name is Tanya Bass, and she and I have done many, many psychic fairs together, including other ceremonies. She's a card reader and she goes by The Psychic Crow. She's very well spoken, and we've done everything from movies together, acting, set design makeup to working together as practitioners. One of the things we used to do a lot was graduation parties locally for high school graduates, and we did very affordable readings for them as gifts, and those were actually really cool events to do. So I would suggest her. And then the other practitioner that I recommend. Her name is Agnete and she's in California. She's a breathwork and yogi and I'm actually getting my breathwork certification from her as well, and I'm happy to give you socials for both of those people as well. I can message them to you, but they are fantastic. Let me see Valkyrie. So Valkyrie Yoga SD on instagram or valkyrieyoga.com is Agneta's business, and she is just a incredible being of light and has done a lot of Eastern practices, so you may find that she has some other interesting things. I met her through another movie project. It's actually a documentary project that I was on. 

KimHost

58:17

Awesome, thank you. 

Sabine Guest

58:19

Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks for asking. 

Kim Host

58:29

Was there anything else you wanted to talk about? Anything I didn't ask or anything happening with your business.

Sabine Guest

58:35

Well, my business here, the Hexenhaus, which means the witch's house or the witch's home, is a nod to my mother's side, her Germanic culture. We do monthly meditations, we do monthly classes on shamanism. I would invite you to find us at @the_Hexenhaus on IG or @readings.by.sabine, also on IG. We're moving into a space of doing a lot more healing work. That's what's been requested and so I think, one of the things that people don't know about my business. Yes, I'm a highly rated card reader here in town, but my meaningful work is doing cleansings, doing smudgings, doing healings, and it's all shamanic based. We use crystals and herbs and incense and oils and energy work to align what you have going on with what is happening in the spirit realm and find some mindful ways of bringing you into a space of wellness. So that's what I'm promoting as we go, as we move into 2025, as more of the healing work here, rather than the little classes that we teach on how to practice something. 

KimHost

01:00:17

So the last two things that I ask of guests are thing number one please recommend something to the listeners. It does not have to be magic related or witchy, just whatever you're into right now oh, what am I into right now? 

SabineGuest

01:00:36

My biggest recommendation is to be very unapologetic about your pursuit of joy and pleasure. We have so many things that inundate us over the course of the day, the week, the month, and we pressurize ourselves into performing, unplug and find what brings you joy. Again, it's that. Don't take yourself too serious, because if you do, it's not going to work out for you. 

KimHost

01:01:10

That is a good one. The second thing is please tell me a story. 

SabineGuest

01:01:19

Tell you a story. I think the story that's welling up is inspired by my time, my tenure as the leader for pagan pride day and I'm telling an “I” story here, even though I'm not about the ego, but this is this is learning that I was trudging through the ashes and we have to have that phoenix rising moment in order to move into what the next phase is. And so I sat with the ashes for many years, leaving that space in 2013, slash 2014 a little bit and then not picking up the baton, really until after COVID and after the quarantine from COVID. And so there was a long, long pause, not in my practice, but in my advocacy work and my public space. 

01:02:46

Public work isn't for everybody, but if you're called to it, even for a short period of time, remember that it is dark and light, because we live in a universe of duality and dichotomy and you cannot have creation without destruction. So the moral of the story, with the phoenix that's rising and building her own space again, is you have to learn to let it fall, and there is a beautiful song Josh Groban sings it I love his work and it's called Let it Fall. It's from A Cirque du Soleil. Take a moment at ground zero, because every phoenix has to sit in the ashes before she can rebuild. 

KimHost

01:03:50

Well, thank you very much for being on the show and for sharing the story. 

SabineGuest

01:03:56

It is my pleasure. Thank you so much Miss Kim! and I will see you over on instagram and possibly in real life one day. We'll see if I get back. 

SabineGuest

01:04:08

I hope so yeah, I absolutely hope so okay, I will see you on Instagram. 

KimHost

01:04:16

Bye!

Sabine Guest

01:04:17

Bye!

Kim Host

01:04:18

Sabine, hi. Welcome to Hive House. 

SabineGuest

01:04:27

Thank you, it's an honor to be here. 

KimHost

01:04:31

So I have some cards. Please say when. 

SabineGuest

01:04:37

And… when. 

KimHost

01:04:41

Did you ever throw a house party? When and how was it? 

SabineGuest

01:04:47

Oh, I love this. Did I ever throw a house party Boy? I've thrown many house parties. I think my favorite one was actually (fades out) (fades in) from that area, particularly Bavaria, Germany, and they're made in a holy space, they're made by monks and that spiciness and that heavy magical… yeah.

KimHost

01:05:22

They’re really dense.

Sabine Guest

01:05:25

They're dense and the bottom of them is (fades out)

Kim Host

01:05:28

 To hear more of the Members Only episode, head over to crepuscularconjuration.com. The Monthly Magic tier will give you access to the Monthly Magic Marco Polo group,  the private Facebook group, and access to the written monthly spells. There's also Crepuscular Conjurations, giving you bonus podcast episodes, coloring pages, guided meditations, spell crafting videos, printable downloads and a lot more. The free Witchy Wonderment level will give you a little sample of everything I just mentioned. You can also visit my shop, Clever Kim's Curios, to get spell boxes, one at a time or by monthly subscription, intentional handcrafted jewelry that I make especially for witches, and handmade altar tools. You can even listen to the full Your Average Witch podcast library, including show notes and transcripts. Check it out at crepuscularconjuration.com. Thanks for listening to this episode of Your Average Witch. You can find us all around the internet on Instagram @youraveragewitchpodcast, facebook.com/groups/hivehouse, at www.youraveragewitch.com, and at your favorite podcast service. If you'd like to recommend someone for the podcast, like to be on it yourself, or if you'd like to advertise on the podcast, send an email to youraveragewitchpodcast at gmail.com. Thanks for listening and I'll see you next Tuesday.