Embracing the Tides of Change: A Merman's Tale of Witchcraft, Ocean Magic, and Inclusivity

When the whispering waves meet the whispers of the past, Merman Zee from the Wanted Depths graces us with tales of his life entwined with the mysteries of witchcraft and the sea. We're swept away on an adventure that reveals Zee's personal evolution through a decade of spiritual exploration, touching on themes of dream work, inclusivity, and the potent storytelling that fuels change. With a voice as calming as the ocean's embrace, Zee recounts his discovery of witchcraft and the continuous growth from nurturing wisdom and understanding, reminding us all of our own capacity for transformation.

As the current carries us deeper, we confront the intricacies of animism and paganism, recognizing the ocean's ancient spirit as a universal force. It's a conversation that rides the crest of belief, facing down the riptides of self-doubt and miasma, while also celebrating the return to mentorship within the spiritual community. Zee's insights into the perennial challenges of faith and the phenomenon of imposter syndrome cast a reflective light on the spiritual journey, providing a beacon for those navigating their own path.

In the final wash of insight, our discussion turns to the crucial topic of diversity and inclusivity in the practice of witchcraft. With a commitment to authenticity, we address head-on the barriers of elitism and racism, and the importance of representation in creating a welcoming space for all practitioners. From the joyful energy of the Afro Mermaid festival to the life-altering sea journey that deepened Zee's connection to oceanic magic, this episode is an invitation to embrace the ebb and flow of personal growth and the significance of community connection in the vast ocean of spirituality.

Chapters

• 0:04 Exploring Witchcraft and Ocean Magic
• 14:50 Exploring Beliefs and Overcoming Doubt
• 27:48 Diversity and Inclusivity in Witchcraft
• 38:09 Influences on Practice and Advice
• 44:38 Upcoming Events and Recommendations
• 51:12 Life-Changing Sea Journey and Community Connection

Transcript

Kim: 0:04

Welcome back to your Average Witch where every Tuesday we talk about witch life, witch stories and sometimes a little witchcraft. Your Average Witch is brought to you by Crepuscular Conjuration. If you're looking for community, for accountability partners, for new witchy friends, check out Crepuscular Conjurations and Hivehouse. For new witchy friends, check out Crepuscular Conjurations and Hivehouse. The tiers range from the free Witchy Wonderment tier, where you get a small sampling of all the digital offerings, the monthly magic tier, where $6.69 gets you access to the monthly spells, the private Facebook group and the Marco Polo group and finally the Crepuscular Conjurations group for $11.11, where you get everything I offer monthly spells, printable downloads like journal and coloring pages, podcast bonuses, guided meditations and tons more, but more importantly, you get access to the monthly Magic Marco Polo group. It's basically an instant coven, if that's what you're looking for, and just a bunch of uber, supportive, hilarious friends if that's what you need. Instead, visit crepuscularconjurationcom and click on subscription services to learn more.

Kim: 1:10

And if the tears sound different from the past few weeks I've been doing this little intro, it's because I realized this morning that I said the tiers wrong. Only I didn't feel like changing the intros, so you're welcome for that. It's limited edition! This week I'm talking with Zee of the Wanted Depths. We talked about the power of the ocean, dream work and inclusivity in witchcraft. Now let's get to the stories.

Zee: 1:41

Zee. Good morning and welcome to the show. Good morning, kim. Thank you for having me.

Zee: 1:50

Thank you for being here Can you please introduce yourself and let everybody know who you are and what you do and where they can find you. I am Merman Zee. I've been a professional merman gosh going on I think four years now. Man Gosh going on, I think four years now. I've also been a professional practitioner for about 10 years. I'm going on over 10 years now of practice concerning spirituality and studying various practices.

Zee: 2:17

My socials I'd say the main one that you can find me on would be the Wanted Depths on Instagram and I believe it's theamazingzee on TikTok. We also have a YouTube channel called Wild Quest, where I record and put out vlogs about the adventures that I go on. I like to think of myself as sort of like an amateur adventurer. It's been kind of a goal for majority of my life and I use things like mermaiding and cosplaying and other stuff to be able to tell stories, to help inspire change and and bring about, you know, a better future for everybody I love that because I love stories that's why this podcast exists also, I'm gonna have to check out your youtube channel.

Zee: 3:04

I love vlogs yeah, we've got one part out right now. Um, last year I had the hilarious idea to convince myself and a bunch of my crew to rent an rv and travel all the way down to miami. I live up in new jersey, so it was an 18 hour drive to get all the way down there. We were attending a mermaid festival, one that I go to annually. It's called Afro Mermaid, hosted by Keri Wada. Shout out, she's an incredible woman and puts on this festival, this sort of big event, every year, to allow mers from all over the world to come and play and hang out and enjoy the nice tropical sun.

Kim: 3:41

It's a great time enjoy the nice tropical sun. It's a great time. That's cool.

Zee: 3:53

So what does it mean to you when you call yourself a witch? Oh, that's a good one, I would say. To me, it means that I am someone who has the ability to reach out into the unknown and into the beyond and interact with things that other people don't often get to experience.

Kim: 4:12

I would say Hmm, do you have any family history with witchcraft or what was your spiritual upbringing like as a child, if you?

Zee: 4:24

had any. Well, my parents never forced any religion on any of us, me and my siblings growing up. They were Christian, they were Baptist and I mean there's a lot of my family that's in the church and, like my grandfather's a deacon and all these other things, my family was heavily involved in the church throughout my youth, but my parents in particular never wanted to force anything on me and my brothers, so they just allowed for us to go and get interested in whatever it was that we were. I would say that my introduction into the world would have happened at I was quite young. I mean, I was still in middle school. So I want to say that I was probably around. Yeah, I had to have been like 11, 12 years old at that point and I actually had met a friend whilst I was at summer camp and he was Wiccan at the time and you know they had asked me things like you know, do you believe in magic? And I was like I mean, I'd like to, that'd be. You know I wouldn't want to believe in that sort of thing. And so, you know, they explained a little bit about Wicca and, of course, my very first question was okay, so can you teach me, can we spread this knowledge? Can I learn a little bit? What's going on here? And they were very, very open to doing that. So that was kind of the start for me.

Zee: 5:52

My family, I would say, were very curious about what I was up to, not really going against it, but very much so like what is this, this, what is he, what's he doing there? Because I would, you know, I would, I would. We had a few books on like witchcraft in my middle school library and I was just checking them, things out again and again and again, just going through it and reading it. We only had one computer in the house and I didn't have a phone, so I would ask to use the computer and I would go on, you know, certain websites to try to find smells and things, and you know it's, it's sort of a. You know the, the, the baby witch times were, were, were very, very fun, you know, because at that point it was like, you know, everything was boundless and I had this, this whole new world, to sort of try to sink my teeth into and learn about.

Kim: 6:44

That's a more positive view than I had, which was oh my gosh there's so much I don't know what I'm doing, but also I didn't have the internet. I think it's a tool and a half, so can you introduce us to your practice? Do you have any consistent rituals that you do? Or, if you don't call it a ritual, whatever you call it.

Zee: 7:09

Yeah, I definitely have a few. I mean, the practices that I've been a part of for the longest amount of time would definitely be things involving music, magic and ocean based magic practices. Magic and ocean-based magic practices um, I, whilst I was, you know, after I kind of learned a lot about what was going on in wigan, I was like this doesn't really feel a lot of like where I think I'm supposed to be, and I was like is there anything else? And you know, my uh now turned teacher at the time was like uh, no, no, I don't think so. And I was like I feel like there's something else out there, because all there is.

Zee: 7:50

They're like no, no, no, this is it, and I was like I'm going to go look for it. So it was a big thing where the practices sort of came out of a lot of what I was already sort of into at the time. You know, I started playing in band from. I was a band kid all the way from elementary school, and so sort of trying to find ways to implement magic into my music was always something that I was trying to figure out. Ways to do magic into my music was always something that I was trying to figure out ways to do. I'll never forget there was one time I came across not a Zodiac chart, but something very, very similar, but with the major scales that were going all around, and I was like this is some cheat codes and a half right here. This is going to make me a great musician.

Zee: 8:40

And when it came to doing things involving the ocean, I mean I've been going to the beach since I was very, very small and the ocean was always a place of peace and excitement for me. My grandfather would literally just sometimes show up at the house and be like all right, we're going to the ocean, and for some reason I always envisioned him just driving off a pier when he said that I was like, is that what we're doing today? I guess, um, but yeah, um, it started with me, you know, really learning to kind of feel the sea and really feel, you know, like the the push and the pull and the waves. My favorite thing to do would be to just sit there, uh, locked hand in hand with friends, and just let like the waves come and just crash over us and then, you know, pull us back out. Thank the gods that we didn't end up in any rip currents or anything, because what were we doing? Um, but you know, we've always had that that adventurous, bold, danger streak, um, and I would always love the feeling of being sort of engulfed in a wave and feeling it pick me up and bring me down. It did occasionally mean that I would get slammed into the beach and it would literally help me fall asleep at night, because if I was struggling too, I would just sort of try to call that feeling back, that energy back into me, and sort of feel that push and pull of the waves, and it would just lull me right to sleep. So that was sort of my start of being able to figure out how to use magic to connect with the sea.

Zee: 10:22

And then, of course, I got called as a shaman at one point, and that was atrocious, because a lot of times when you get called towards that thing, it's not always the most pleasant of journeys. A lot of times you experience something called shaman sickness. It's something that I've experienced, other people have also experienced, and it's just, you get really, really sick out of nowhere and there's nothing wrong with you, really, but your body just absolutely loses it and the idea of it, I think, in terms of what those beings and spirits are attempting to do, is bring you closer to that other side, bring you closer almost to death in a way. And you got to be able to touch that other side and come back, to be able to have that open connection. So that happened, I would say, about about seven years ago, give or take.

Zee: 11:16

And so I've been doing music, magic for who knows how long at this point, ocean magic for another long period of time. And then, you know, then I went and studied with various mentors. Two of my mentors were actually Nordic practitioners, very, very good friends of mine. This and Hannah love those people to death and they taught me so much just about how to connect with the other world, with the spirits, with the gods, all of those things, and learn. You know a lot, but me, being a traditionalist, I would say it's a little bit more rough around the edges sometimes. It's not always as sweet. You know when you're experiencing things.

Kim: 11:59

What are some things that you do right now?

Zee: 12:03

I would say dream work is probably the biggest one. I love doing things involving dream work and dream interpretation. My dreams have always been a very big element, I would say about just being comfortable with the experiences that I've had, because my dreams would often be very, very vivid and very intense. I've been working on training in lucidity and that's been quite a bit of fun, but also occasionally causes sleep paralysis, so that's less than fun.

Kim: 12:32

All right, no, thank you.

Zee: 12:35

It's not fun. You're like all right, I'm going to try to lucid dream. And then you open your eyes and you're like, oh, I can't move. Oh, this is bad. You're just stuck there for a little bit. I can't move. Oh, this is bad. You're just stuck there for a little bit.

Kim: 12:47

What would you say is the biggest motivator in your practice, and has it changed since?

Zee: 12:53

you first started. It has definitely changed over the years as I've grown and gotten more serious about it and I had to research a lot more things. And I think the biggest turning point probably would have come when I was around 16, 17 years old and there was just an emphasis on doing a lot more research and a lot more really just understanding the nature of the things that I wanted to get involved with. Because of the seriousness of working with some of these beings, because they have a lot of power and you can't just go around messing with things like that.

Zee: 13:27

I would say that my biggest motivation is honestly it might sound a bit strange, I don't know, but I can recall being as young as I was first finding out about witchcraft and about paganism and about this whole other side of spirituality than I had previously been introduced to, and I remember the sort of almost giddy excitement that I had finding out about all these things and just the sort of confirmation that it was for me.

Zee: 14:05

So I would say one of the biggest motivators is keeping kind of that inner child happy in a way in terms of, you know, allowing myself to still believe and, you know, because obviously it's not too uncommon for people who, when they discover witchcraft and things and their youth, to eventually kind of move away from it or adopt a different form of beliefs. But I never had any interest of kind of going back any other way Once I found this world. I was just completely engulfed by it, and so continuing to fuel that kind of joy and passion and adventure is, I think, a really big motivator for me as to why I've kept going all these years.

Kim: 14:50

Side question Are you an animist?

Zee: 14:55

I definitely. I mean I definitely studied. I mean I would, in terms of which actual deep spiritual belief I would say that I follow. I'm definitely pagan, but a lot of times, animism is definitely a very deep subgroup of paganism as well. So it's, it's one of those things. I definitely went and I studied and I was like, yeah, no, this makes sense, I agree with that.

Kim: 15:14

So I would say yes well, the reason I ask is do you? I thought you were going to when you said you were working with deeper and more powerful beings. I thought you were going to say the ocean? Do you consider? That to be one of those things, or do you consider that to be something else?

Zee: 15:35

I consider the ocean to be and this is one of the things that I love about it so much the ocean being as old and some of the beings know beings that have existed in it. For you know, I always say there's. There's no life without the sea, because a lot of life originated in the ocean. I view it as this almost just massive, not even corporeal, but just. It's a thing where you have so many energies and so many beings that are are within it that it almost exists, just as its own, I guess you could say almost a universe. In a way, it very much so feels alive. But one of the things that I love is that, depending on which ocean you're in because I've been in various, you know, I've been in the Atlantic, I've been in the Pacific, I want to visit the Arctic, but I also know that I hate cold water, so that's going to be tricky. I don't know how Arctic mers. I also know that.

Kim: 16:23

I hate cold water, so that's going to be tricky Like I'm not doing that.

Zee: 16:25

I don't know how Arctic mers love it. I've got some that swim in the Great Lakes.

Kim: 16:30

Oh no they exist?

Zee: 16:31

Oh yes, they do. They do, and I don't know how they do it because it couldn't be me. I live in Arizona for a reason and that is one of them. Just yeah, cold water I don't really enjoy, but each ocean feels different, the energies and the beings that are within it, in terms of the mythologies, the stories, it's different, and so when you have this place that has so much different stuff, that all coexists in a way, it's very hard to kind of pin it down into one thing, because it feels like it's so many things. I don't even know if that answered your question.

Kim: 17:13

Yeah, it did. What is your biggest struggle when it comes to your practice?

Zee: 17:32

I would say my biggest struggle is at times remembering to have faith in myself and have that same you know belief in my abilities. There's a there's a Hellenic um concept of which I really, really enjoy. It's a Hellenic philosophy that talks about I believe it's pronounced miasma. I could be wrong, but it's essentially the kind of like icky gunk that covers your being as you exist in the day-to-day life.

Zee: 17:57

With the way that, how we all live and how difficult things can be, it sort of just drags you down and it cuts you off from the divine, and things like stress and life can always throw curveballs your way and unexpected situations can happen that bring about a lot of just bad feelings and that really just stops you from being able to interpret messages from the other side and keep, you know, your energy high and pure. It's very, very difficult to do sometimes. So I would say the miasma covering up things and you know kind of me struggling to be able to receive those messages and also continue to work and feel as powerful is probably one of the biggest kind of things that I run into relatively consistently.

Kim: 18:51

It sounds like you're describing imposter syndrome. Would you say that you have that? What do you do about it?

Zee: 19:03

I would say that I do every once in a while. I don't know if I experience it with my practice as frequently as I experience it with my career. I experience it all the time with my career. I'm just like, oh my gosh, like what am I doing? Like there's no way. That, know, I was. I was very, very surprised, but also, you know, elated to be able to be a facilitator last year for for on the hottest purpose. I can't wait to go back this year. The class is going to be real, real good. I can't. I'm so excited. But I definitely, you know, I would say when I got there and was like, okay, it's time to be, to be, to be teaching. Same, when I got there and was like, okay, it's time to be, to be, to be teaching, um, I haven't taught in a long time. Uh, I mean when I was younger, I would.

Zee: 19:52

You know, when you're younger and you're in various groups online and stuff, you know, with the amount of studying and research that I was doing, I would frequently be, you know a point to people to go to for questions and how to be like, okay, how do I do this practice? This thing is, you know, a point to people to go to, for you know questions and how to be like, okay, how do I do this practice? This thing is. You know, I studied so many different things so I was like, yeah, you know, you can do this kind of stuff or these things will help. You know, they're just like, if I want to connect with this being, what should I do? And I'm like, well, this is what the being likes in terms of offerings, but also, you know, maybe, you know, maybe don't leave them on this day because they might I don't know shut your car down, stuff like that, and I haven't done that in a time.

Zee: 20:36

So when I got to Anahata's and stepping kind of back into that role as a teacher and a guide, it was a little bit daunting at first because I was like, oh man, I hope I still can do this. Like, is this still a thing? You know I was like, oh man, I hope I still can do this. Like is, is this still a thing? You know, you definitely, you know, get nervous and kind of hesitant because it's like do I know what I'm talking about? And you know, but everyone there was so, so kind and and and welcoming and you know, I felt right at home very quickly and, and you know the the two classes that I taught, uh cause I had two different, two different sessions for them. I mean, I was surprised at the amount of people who came to the first one and then the second one, which had like double that. I was like, oh my gosh, this is.

Kim: 21:10

Because they all had heard by then.

Zee: 21:13

I had no idea that word was even going around, but it was. I would say I definitely felt imposter syndrome, more so for that than I do when I'm sitting and you know meditating or you know doing, you know like drumming or droning, which are you know two aspects that are associated with various shamanic practices. You know that kind of stuff. I've come around a lot more. On being like yes, I know what I'm doing for this, you know, I know how things are supposed to be able to feel, but definitely for going out there and teaching, I had a good bit of a imposter syndrome for that.

Kim: 21:50

How did you get through it and not just decide, not just decide? You know? Nevermind, I was just kidding, I'm just going to go jump in this Creek over here it's just like, yeah, you know what I can't.

Zee: 22:06

I would say that I got through it. I mean, for one, I had my incredible team around me. I had Scar with me, I had Ro with me and they are incredible people that always are going down with my ridiculous ideas and they're very, very supportive of the cause. I do come up with some crazy ideas sometimes. Uh, they were very, very supportive and helped me a lot in terms of setup and, you know, after I taught the very first class, they both gave me feedback and were like, okay, this is what you did. That was good. So having you know, a good team and a good support system around definitely assists in that. When you see that the people around you believe in you, you're like, okay, maybe I can do this.

Zee: 22:46

But still, internally, there sort of came a moment where I had to trust that the things that I know and that the experiences that I've had were going to be something that other people were going to be interested in. And I wanted to make sure that when I taught the class that it was a little bit not unorthodox, but I definitely didn't want it to be cookie cutter, I wanted to have a little bit more of an edge to it, because the ocean is beautiful but it's such a dangerous place and it can be very, very violent at times. And so I wanted to make sure that I had an emphasis on being like yes, there is good in this, and then there was also just a lot of bad in it as well, depending on where it is that you're taking it. And I think me really kind of and allowing myself to be expressive in a way where I was like, okay, I that energy and get kind of back into that groove again, was it just?

Zee: 24:12

It blew away, or I guess I should say washed away Puns. I washed away all of the. This interview is over. It's like all right, we've had enough, get them out of here. But yeah, that definitely got rid of any imposter syndrome that I had. And then for the rest of the the event, and you know, when I taught my next class, I was very confident and felt like, yeah, this is, this is good stuff here. I like this.

Kim: 24:47

What is your favorite tool? It does not have to be a physical object. It can be an idea or a philosophy, or a sound or a smell.

Zee: 24:58

Oh, that's a really good question. My favorite tool? I have so many tools. I would say that, probably, yeah. I think the way to go about answering this question would be to think about the artifacts that I've kind of collected over the years and, uh, the ones that I most commonly use. Um, I think, probably Dane. I think Dane is probably my favorite tool. So Dane is a leather mask that I wear occasionally when I'm doing certain rites or rituals, especially ones that involve heavy amounts of drumming or dancing.

Zee: 25:42

When I used to put on retreats years ago, we would put up a big bonfire and we would have this thing that I would call a round circle. We would all be drumming and dancing around the fire, and Dane was a gift that was given to me right around the pandemic yeah, about 2020. And his name is literally Dane. Dane the Hunter is his name, as was bestowed upon him by the one who made him, my very good friend, marin from Ambercraft Creations. She creates absolutely incredible works of garb and her leather headdresses are literally second to none. They are incredible. It's definitely worth the amount because the quality is. I mean, I've had him for years and he's still beautiful. I would love to. I would love to. I'll send you a photo, definitely, so that you can, you can see him, and then when I, when I come to to Anahata's this year, I'll make sure to bring him with me, because I brought him last year.

Zee: 26:37

But yeah, he's a beautiful, beautiful headdress and when, the moment that he is on my head and you know, I feel kind of the energy that was imbued in him when he was made, it's like nothing else. He's an incredible tool that definitely assists me in not only grounding but also just feeling. When you're dealing with certain kinds of spirits, especially older ones that have existed for a time. Those energies can sometimes feel foreign, they can sometimes feel dangerous and they can sometimes feel very threatening, even though that's not what the spirit intends. They don't intend to be harmful, but just their energy can be a lot, especially if we're in a room or something like that, and that being comes in, it's a lot. And so having Dane is one of my tools that always makes me feel as though I don't need to be small. I can also be energetically large and tall with these other beings and I found that at times that can be a thing that makes them quite receptive. So he's he's always been a very useful tool for me.

Kim: 27:41

That's cool.

Zee: 27:44

Yeah, I got all kinds of crazy artifacts like that.

Kim: 27:48

What is something you wish was discussed more in the witch community.

Zee: 27:55

There are two things that kind of go back and forth for me, between which one I deem kind of more important in the moment. But I would say that the elitism in a way because I've definitely encountered a lot of elitism in the witchcraft community, and then also racism, is another thing that I've experienced in the witchcraft community and it doesn't come up too often, but at least in terms of discussions that I see. But I do think that it's something that really, you know, probably should be brought up a bit more, because there are, you know, entire sections of people that kind of don't really know where it is that they're going to fall within the community. And I find that I mean, like one of the things that I love about On the Hottest Purpose is that it's a very open and kind of accepting environment. You know everyone is very happy to be there, very happy to you know, share their knowledge and you know, and just hang out with one another Very, very good vibes. But in other places that I've been, other events that I've gone to, I've definitely not always felt as welcomed and I've definitely not always felt as accepted. And when you're a person of color especially, you know how to pick up on those signs and you know how to feel, like, okay, yeah, you get those vibes because you're literally born and raised on understanding what it's like when someone has it out for you, especially because of your race, and so that's one element of it. And then just the people who feel as though they are significantly better than others because they've been either practicing for this long or because feeling that their practices are more important than other ones.

Zee: 29:50

There's a lot of times of which I've wanted to gain knowledge or wanted to learn about things and been turned away for not any you know kind of legitimate reason. Because it's one thing if it's like a closed practice, right, you know that's not what we're talking about here, because I don't deem people who have closed practices as being elitist. I deem them as being protective over things that absolutely could be destroyed if they're not done in the right way. Days, but not everywhere is there as much community and you know, willingness to bond with other people because it's like, oh, I practice this, and so if you practice that, then you know I'm not going to associate with you, that kind of thing. And it's like we're all in the same world here, you know, same continent, different countries, sure, but we're all still here experiencing these things and wanting to connect with this larger force.

Kim: 30:50

So you know why cast any any shadow on any other kind of practice okay, I'm gonna ask for some work that I did not earn from you, so feel free to say no, not right now. What would make it better for you? As I'm thinking I'm I'm in the process of creating an event of my own. How can I make you feel more welcome as a minority?

Zee: 31:25

I would say the. I would say that one of the biggest things in terms of because it's it's it's tricky because I know that a lot of you know practices and beliefs that are involved with minorities. There's a good amount of them that are closed practices. You know things, things and whether or not it's because it's tricky, because there are some people who are a part of you know, certain communities that, even though the practice is closed, they'll still go and they'll teach it. Um, because my first thought was going to be well, you know, have more representation, you know more people who, who have practices that are minorities and you know, let bring them, bring them in, and you know, let them, let them, you know them, you know show their stuff. So I would say, if you can find, you know people who are a part of practices who are in the minority, and you know shedding them more light, that would be a great way to make them feel welcomed, cause I know that if I'm going to you know a certain place, I'm looking at the practices and I'm saying, okay, what, what am I? What am I seeing a lot of here and depending on, obviously there are many, many aspects of witchcraft that have a lot of Eurocentric tendencies and plenty of pagan beliefs that are specifically Eurocentric, so that's not really going to be an issue. I know that if I'm going into these kinds of circles, I'm going to find practices like that. For me, it's usually more so of like, okay, where are the minorities at this event and what are they doing?

Zee: 32:58

So I would say, definitely reaching out to people who have practices that are specifically more ethnic in various ways and if they are down to come and shed their knowledge and, you know, spread it around, then definitely getting them in there and allowing more diversity, I would say, because a lot of circles, especially involving witchcraft, are, you know, are not going to feature that many things involving minorities. And it's definitely you, you know, it's still circles that I've found are, you know, there's still plenty of people that are white at a lot of them and that, just like, I just know, if I'm going, I'm like, all right, there's gonna be a lot of white people there and that's, that's fine, that's, that's totally gravy. But I would, you know, if I'm going and I'm seeing some, some peeps that that that are not, and like, ooh, what are we doing over here? What's happening, like, what's up, fam, what's going on? You know, that kind of thing it's. It's very, very commonplace.

Zee: 33:56

I would just say allowing for there to be more diversity and allowing for there to be more spaces for people who people of color, you know, minorities definitely allowing more spaces for them.

Zee: 34:09

I mean, even if it was a thing where you know someone specifically, you know wanted to teach, you know, a class on, you know, let's say, like a Voodan or something like that, you know, even it's I do know that there, because it can get divisive and that's why, that's why I know you don't know whether or not you're going to keep any of this in, because it can get divisive, but like, but that's what I mean, it's the whole idea of you know in in this community, that this is still a thing that we're having conversations about because it can get very, very divisive.

Zee: 34:40

So, as long as that's going to be a thing, it's, it's definitely going to be a thing that we have to work on. But you know, let's say we had someone who wanted to teach about a closed practice and they specifically wanted to teach it to people who are of that community. Well, do you, as an event holder, allow them that space? Or is it like a hey, you know, we don't want to close things off, like and I. It's a tricky, it's a very tricky thing. I absolutely understand that. But I would say, just at the very least, starting to have the conversations about it and getting people who are willing to teach things about that, getting them in a room and starting to talk to them to try to figure out a way where we can get more diversity and more people of color involved.

Kim: 35:23

Here's some privilege that never even occurred to me that someone who taught a closed practice would want to come to an event and teach only to the people who would be. I'm going to use the term eligible because I don't know. Yeah, To be part of the practice. That never occurred to me.

Zee: 35:41

Yeah, and it's because you know it's. Depending on the kind of event that you have, it can be very much so viewed as exclusory.

Zee: 35:49

And it's I mean, mean, it is so whatever it is, but it's like, you know dems, the rules. You know like it's okay, you know it's it's totally, but there are plenty of of practices you know like like, for instance, things uh, for me in particular, uh, I don't involve myself really with a lot of things that are, oh, you know, eastern, like that's not my cup of tea. I don't know nothing about any of that and I don't feel anything about the fact that you know someone like, who looks like me, probably would not be involved in that kind of community or that kind of circle. You know no differently than anyone from anything in particular. I mean I know that when it comes of circle, you know no differently than anyone from anything in particular. I mean I know that when it comes to, especially, you know paganism these days that, since you know there's so much information and everything that, yeah, you have people that look like me who are Norse pagans.

Zee: 36:40

I spent years studying Norse paganism and practicing, and the biggest reason as to why I stepped away from the path is because of the amount of racism that I experienced, because people who look like me, generally speaking, are not a part of that community and, yeah, some people were none too pleased. I mean, I had plenty of people who were accepting and more than willing to teach me things. But I also encountered a lot of pushback and it did eventually just get to be too much for me because it was just harming me and I couldn't continue to be involved with that practice. So it was a very difficult thing, but it it did happen I hate that yeah, that's a.

Zee: 37:22

it's a rough one, but it's it's. Yeah, it's it. It was happening at around the same time as, um, you know the, the george floyd thing and the start of the Black Lives Matter movement. Oh gosh, with everything that was going on, it became just my page at the time, because I was also doing content creation with my practice and my page just became a hotspot for it. It was just consistent and it just got to be too much. I couldn't do it anymore that is gross.

Kim: 37:51

Stay. Keep your bullshit on your own shitty page, asshole. Let's go to something not trashy. I don't know we're gonna keep any of that in, but I probably will because I think it's valuable to the community. But consider the three biggest influences on your practice, whether they are people, animals, a song, whatever. Thank them for what they add to your life and your practice.

Zee: 38:28

I would definitely thank the natural world first. Just, you know the and I mean that in all aspects. I mean it's, whether it's whether it's you know the ocean, you know the sky, you know the wind, the trees, you know the rocks, the rivers, I definitely mean the animals, all of it, it's. It's such a massive, massive inspiration. I mean I've I've been in a, in a rut for for quite a little while, and yesterday, for the first time in a while, I went to the sea again, and bright and early in the morning, because I go to the beach year round, I'm always at the beach, even in the winter. And I went and I dove in for the first time in a while and coming out of that water just felt really be music, not even any particular kind, but just, I guess, sound more so things to give certain frequencies, the energies that are associated with that are so powerful and so moving that, regardless as to whether or not someone is a practitioner, music always moves, and so that's a thing that we all share and all have a connection to. I would say, so that's a big thing to thank.

Zee: 40:05

And then, definitely I would say, number three has got to be the ancestors Always got to give it up to the ancestors and without them there is no us and the ones who came before us that allowed for us all to sort of pave our way and be here. There's so much that I owe, in terms of my gifts and in terms of my talents, to my ancestry and to my bloodline and even though you know, for someone like me who's a part of the diaspora. So you know, I don't know all of my roots completely because you know my family line did not arrive here in the United States by choice, so you know a lot of that previous history and stuff like. I don't know where my family goes back to necessarily, I just have a vague general idea of it's likely somewhere off the Western coast of Africa, much like many other African Americans here. So thanking, you know, the ancestors for their strength and their resilience to allow for me to be able to still exist is something that can you know I can never, thank them enough.

Kim: 41:14

What advice do you have for somebody just starting out?

Zee: 41:19

Biggest bit of advice? Research, in all honesty, that would be the biggest thing. So me as a, the biggest thing. So me as a. As a, I would consider myself more of a traditionalist and one of the big things that was emphasized on me once I started really getting into practice is you know, research, research. You know, go and find various sources, compare things. You know, like I am, you know, a believer of the idea that if you're going to practice something, you should have a well-rounded idea of what it is that you're doing before you decide to jump into it. And so it's not even just researching.

Zee: 42:01

You know spells, I would say, whatever practice that you're interested in, you know, let's say that you're interested in dream work, for instance, you're interested in. You know, let's say that you're interested in dream work, for instance. And obviously the first thing that everyone thinks to do is oh, you know, I want to lucid dream and go flying and yeah, that would be nice. But do you know the methods to getting into lucid dreaming? You know research is such a big component because feeling your way through it definitely is important, without a doubt. You know, feeling that energy inside and having, you know, the faith and belief in your own ability and practice. You definitely need that. It's a fundamental core.

Zee: 42:34

But one of the ways of which you can help gain that confidence in yourself is simply, just, you know, do research. Whether or not it's you picking up a book or going, and you know, hopping on various websites. There's so much information out there and then from there I would say that the next big thing is, in my opinion, you know, community, and community is a very big component, because I know that some people do definitely prefer the solitary practice. But even just comparing what you're doing with other people to get an idea of what kinds of things to expect or what kinds of things you might experience, just having that knowledge before going in, I think is very, very important, because you really want to know or, at least in my opinion, you want to have an idea of what it is that you want to do and to what end. So doing research kind of helps you formulate goals. It helps you see whether or not a certain practice is something that you think that you're going to want to do. I think that's quite important.

Kim: 43:34

Now that you have seen what it's like to talk to me and heard the questions, who do you think would be interesting for me to have on the show?

Zee: 43:47

I think, oh, oh, my God, let me think who would? Who would you, you, you gel along with? Yeah?

Kim: 43:54

I think you know.

Zee: 43:55

I think Scar from from the horned Raven would be a real fun individual on this, on this, on this podcast.

Zee: 44:03

She is a firecracker of energy. I'll tell you what Cause I'm trying to think. Yeah, I a firecracker of energy. I'll tell you what. Um, because I'm trying to think, yeah, I'm trying to think of, like, people, who, who I know, oh, yes, I think I think scar would be good. And then I also think I have to literally pull up what their name is so that I don't mistake it, because I refuse to disrespect this individual that way. I must, I must know their names. Um, yes, here it is. And then I also think, yeah, artemis from, uh, the hoodoo mermaid llc. Would also have a lot of fun on on this podcast. I will definitely send, send you both of their information.

Kim: 44:38

Uh, I think that they would both bring a very, very insightful and an interesting uh point of view nice, yeah, because I um, I have only recorded up into june this time, so anybody out there who's looking for some guest, guest, uh, appearances, email me get on it, get on the show is there anything else that you wanted to talk about, anything going on with you, or did you have any questions for me?

Zee: 45:11

Yeah, I definitely have a few things going on. I mean, I am going to be coming down to Anahata's I guess technically for me it's north, I think but I am going to be heading there and so I would love for you to come in and sit on the class Rising Tides is the name of it when that's where you know we're going to get into a whole bunch of nitty gritty about ocean magic and deep sea things and even get into some, you know, some merfolk energies and how and how you know you can relate to those kinds of beings, and it's a very, very fun class. I always say that it's a class for people who are interested in, terrified of or just have a lot of respect for the sea. It doesn't matter whether or not you like it or you hate it. You still should come. You're going to find something. It's going to be good, going to be. I believe that that is is my next big event.

Zee: 46:10

Um, I don't know whether or not I'm going to be going down to afro mermaid, which is over the the juneteenth, um, you know, sort of timeline. I believe it's from the 15th to the 18th of june, uh, and I might be going down, but if any of y'all are down in miami and you want me, you want me to come, then you know I'll come, I promise uh. But I, I definitely uh, would like to be able to go back this year. Um, and aside from that, I mean I would say I just thought, make sure you go, go and go and go and check out my instagram. There's a lot of stuff there, some some interesting things.

Zee: 46:41

My instagram and my tiktok, uh, my instagram would be uh, at the wantedanteddepths and my TikTok is, I believe it's theamazingz, if I'm not mistaken. But yeah, there's a lot of fun stuff that we do over there. I mean, you get to see the kind of content that I create. You know me traveling around and going and meeting with people. It's a lot of fun. We tell a lot of great stories over there. I do firmly believe that I was put on this world to be a storyteller and I love just, I love just talking about the crazy, wild adventures that I'd love to get myself into.

Kim: 47:15

It's so the last two things I ask of my guests are thing number one recommend something to the listeners. It does not have to be witch related at all, it can be anything you're into at the moment.

Zee: 47:31

Oh, recommend, oh yes, yes, I absolutely love that. I would say that my recommendation I hope that I'm not, I'm sure other people probably have, but I'm going to recommend it anyway A fantastic band to listen to is I really hope that I'm the first one. I'm going to be very jealous if I'm not the first one. A fantastic band that I think that everybody should listen to is Hellung. They are incredible. They are a sort of a proto-Germanic sort of folk band and their music is incredible. I have seen them live twice, uh, once in new york city, and then I actually flew across the pond over to the uk to spend time in new york for a week, to see them again at a festival, and just their concerts are genuinely an experience and I think everyone should definitely go and check them out. I love them. I almost got to go and have drinks with them one time it was.

Kim: 48:31

It was fantastic, yeah yeah, you are the first to recommend them, but um, I second that yes, they're so good.

Zee: 48:39

They're so good. I'm just maria I, I can't, I can't. She's a goddess, I can. She's incredible.

Kim: 48:48

So the last thing is please tell me a story.

Zee: 48:51

Fantastic. Yes, okay, gosh, okay, gosh. What story do I tell? Okay, okay, pick a topic, any topic, and I guarantee that I have a story about it oh no, you can't ask me things.

Kim: 49:10

That's not how this interview works. The ocean okay, brilliant.

Zee: 49:22

So this story comes from the time where I got to go on a netflix documentary, um called mer people a Netflix documentary called Merpeople, because I am on that and when we basically they put out a casting call, so to speak, and they wanted to gather 20 mers from around the world and take them all on a sort of cruise competition and I was selected to be able to go, which was absolutely astounding, but as a little bit of a precursor for this story, just in terms of experiences that I've had. So every once in a while, I do come across some very unexplainable things, and when I had submitted my application to go on this cruise, I did not think I was going to get selected. I had very, very little faith and I asked for a sign. And one time, whilst me and Ro were driving I don't know what we were doing that day, but we were driving and I see right after me saying I wish I had a sign. There is a white stag that is standing not far off of the interstate and we almost crashed because we were like what? You don't see those here, I've never seen one before and I'm like does no one see this? Hello, there was a genuine white stag that was standing. I remember seeing it on a hill and I was like there's no way. I've never seen something like this and even if they are here, they're not supposed to be this far north, not where you know we are. In jersey, there is a legend about a white stag. It's a um, old indigenous story, um, about them existing definitely further south in in new jersey, down in the pinelands. Uh, but seeing one this far north, it was a. It was literally. It was a massive sign and enough.

Zee: 51:12

I got selected to be able to go on the cruise. So I always thank the White Stag for for being there to show that everything was going to be okay. But okay, now going on this cruise and I need to get down to Miami and get on this, this big boat, and here we go. So the big thing that I really wanted I didn't really care about being on Netflix, I didn't really care about being on a cruise. The biggest thing that I wanted was I needed to be at sea, because up until this time, it was not something that I had experienced and I desperately craved just looking out into the ocean and seeing just boundless, just sea. I had to see that and fortunately for the rooms that we got, they had a nice little patio that we could stand on and there was a nice little swinging chair out there. So I got to at so many points during this trip I would just sit out there and just watch the water go by. I developed my sea legs very quickly, which I was happy about because pirate status.

Zee: 52:21

And one particular morning, after a very, very rough night, I was just sitting down in the bed and trying to plan for the rest of the day because we had a casting call, we had to be on deck at a certain time and very, very rigorous film schedule and I was very stressed out. But I could hear somebody from another room or so cheering and I was like what's going on? And so I go out and I look out and I can see spinneret dolphins popping up out of the water and going and swimming and they're playing in the wake of our boat and they jump up way into the air and I was like this is incredible. These are wild dolphins that I'm looking at and I get to be out here on the ocean just looking at these wild dolphins. Ocean, just looking at these wild dolphins One of the stops that we made was in Honduras, and I love going to Honduras, but that's another story for a different time.

Zee: 53:18

But I didn't know whether or not I was going to be able to get off the boat that day and fortunately, with our film schedule, I could, and so I sprinted off the boat and immediately left the resort because I was like I'm not staying here, I don't care for this, I know what it does to your economy, I'm sorry. And got out of the resort and me and my good friend Carrie, we went just kind of walking around and we got this tour guide who was like okay, I'll take you wherever you want to go. And Carrie sees these kids jumping off of a dock, like doing backflips into the water, and she's like I want to go over there and I'm like we don't know any of these people, Carrie, and also there's a gate. How are we going to do this? But Carrie is ever so bold and she goes up to this guy who is essentially the club owner of this little area here, because he has his own little boat and his little club that he's been, and he's like hey, can we just come and hang out on your dock for a little while and the guy's like, yeah, sure, I guess, why not? So he lets us in.

Zee: 54:21

And we just spent time just hanging out with these kids and just watching them rating their backflips as they jumped off into the water and they're swimming around, and it was just such a moment, such a moment of just like here are these people from, who live entirely different lives, and I got to just sit there and play with them and listen to them.

Zee: 54:40

As you know, they're talking about all the things that they're excited about and you know why they love living on the islands and everything and it was just so beautiful to have that moment of connection. And that's when I was like this is what I want to help show people that there's so much just community and just family and love surrounding the sea. There's so many people that are here that live right on that water and just have this connection. I mean it was just such an eye-opening experience for me to be able to hang out with them and chat with them and them tell me about him. I mean one little boy had mentioned the fact that one of his favorite things is feeding the dogs that like to come up to his house, and how he's got. He's just friendly with all these neighborhood dogs and I'm like there are a lot of dogs here and he's just naming them one by one and I'm like, how do you know all these?

Kim: 55:29

dogs. Okay, I love that child.

Zee: 55:32

And he's just like, yeah, like you know, I feed them stuff and you know I walk around and he just has no fear as he's just walking through the streets with all these dogs and, you know, just seeing the people that live on and near the water is something that I want to be able to help show, like the rest of the world, because it's genuinely incredible. And I feel like, when we talk about things like sustainability and, you know, helping environmental things, that I don't think that there's enough emphasis on the people that are on the ground, right there, in these communities that literally have their entire life by the sea, and I think that we should shine more of a light on that and that we should, you know, get their side of things and hear you and hear what it is that they have to say about things involving the environment, because there's so much connection there that I could visually see and I think that, yeah, they deserve the mic absolutely and it was just. It was an incredible experience, definitely life-changing, and we talked to the guy who owns the club and we were definitely planning on going back there because we noticed that there was a lot of life-changing and I, you know, we talked to you know the guy who owns the club and you know we were definitely planning on going back there because we noticed that there was a lot of obviously, you know there's a lot of trash, there's all these things there, and you know we like want to get there and get get the beach cleanups going and you know help just like. It's such a beautiful life.

Zee: 56:45

These people who live near the water and I think bringing about, you know, more, more of a, you know, a limelight on them and more of people being able to see them, and that accessibility will definitely help bring about so much change in a positive manner. So I went out with the goal of just wanting to see the open ocean and I did get to achieve that, but I also came back having a newfound sense of like purpose, cause I was like I want to show people that there is so much more happening on and around the water than they can possibly know and I think that they should know.

Kim: 57:23

That's good, that's my story. Thank you, Yay Well, thank you for being on the show. Everybody be sure to check show notes, click all the links, follow, subscribe and I will see you on Instagram. Okay, bye! Z welcome Hive House!

Zee: 57:49

Oh yeah, motherfuckers, you know what time it is, let's go.

Kim: 57:55

So okay, here we go. I got cards in my hand Say when Now. What class or exam are you surprised you passed, because you thought you'd fail oh my gosh, there are dozens upon dozens.

Zee: 58:17

I was a terrible student. I was an awful student, um, but one that I would say sticks out is probably. It surprised me, because you would think that it made me a better player.

Kim: 58:32

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Kim: 59:24

Thanks for listening to this episode of your Average Witch. You can find us all around the internet on Instagram, at your Average Witch Podcast, facebookcom, slash groups, slash Hype House, at wwwyouraveragewitchcom and at your favorite podcast service. If you'd like to recommend someone for the podcast, like to be on it yourself, or if you'd like to advertise on the podcast, send an email to youraveragewitchpodcast at gmailcom. Thanks for listening and I'll see you next Tuesday. Thank you.