Woven Spells and Sound Waves in the Life of a Neurodivergent Witch

Embark on a captivating sonic adventure with Abigail White, a witch whose very being is intertwined with the vibrations of sound and the quirks of a brilliant neurodivergent mind. Together, we uncover the ways in which Abigail's past as an opera singer harmonizes with their current magical practices, enveloping listeners in a world where soundbaths offer solace and astrological insights light the way. As we traverse the realm of witchcraft, Abigail, endearingly known as the keen witch, reveals how embracing their autism and ADHD has shaped a unique spiritual path, one that is as inclusive as it is powerful, resonating deeply with individuals across the spectrum of hearing.

Within the folds of our conversation lie the threads of ancestral magic and the grappling with a conservative upbringing, a narrative all too familiar yet uniquely Abigail's. The keen witch illuminates the beauty found in simplicity, the struggle against imposter syndrome, and the strength that comes from recognizing one's worth beyond societal expectations. Their perspective on the intersection of neurodiversity and spiritual practice offers listeners a refreshing lens through which to view personal challenges and growth. Abigail's tapestry of experiences, from the bustling energy of New York City to the tranquil alignment with the lunar cycle, unfolds across our discussion, inviting you to reflect on the ways in which your environment shapes your own magical journey.

Concluding our enchanting foray into the world of witchcraft, Abigail imparts the importance of creating inclusive spaces within the magical community and the transformative belief in reincarnation's eternal harmonic structure. We are reminded of the power of small actions, the grounding influence of a simple hum, and the boundless nature of our existence. Each story and insight shared by the keen witch is an invitation to embrace authenticity and to find comfort in the community, magic, and the present moment. So, tune in, open your heart, and let the vibrations of this episode guide you toward a deeper understanding of yourself, your magic, and the interconnectedness of all things.
 
Be sure to check out Abigail's website, and book a reading with them at thekeenwitch.com!

Transcript

Kim: 0:04

Welcome back to Your Average Witch, where every Tuesday we talk about witch life, witch stories and sometimes a little witchcraft. Your Average Witch is brought to you by Crepuscular Conjuration. This week I'm talking to Abigail White, Keen Witch. We talked about neurodivergence in witchcraft, sonic magic, and why witches should hum. Now let's get to the stories. Abigail, welcome to the show, thank you. Thank you for having me, thank you for being here and tolerating the insanity it took for me to get to this point in this interview. Can you please introduce yourself and let everybody know who you are and what you do, and where they can find you.

Abigail: 0:50

Yes, my name is Abigail White. They/ them pronouns. I go by the Keen Witch on my website and Instagram and TikTok. I am a witch, obviously, as we're on this podcast. I do a lot of things. I'm an astrologer, a tarot reader, I do sonic magic. I do sound healings, sonic things Really related to astrology and current astrology. Also, I'm someone who never stops exploring and finding new things, which is equally wonderful and exhausting. I'm sure three or four months from now, I'll be like guys, I found something new. I'm actually in the middle of finding something new and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so excited.

Abigail: 1:43

I do offer tarot readings, astrology readings. I also feel free to pop in and DM me for advice, because I love to refer people to other people who can help them, if that is not me. I do a lot of things. What I do on the regular that's fully accessible is I do weekly rundowns of the week ahead astrologically just 10 minute videos on Instagram and TikTok. Then also I do soundbaths for the new and full moon that are free on my website so everyone can have access to those things. Besides, the things I offer that you have to pay me for. Yeah, that's about it in a small, encapsulated form.

Kim: 2:27

That's cool. I've never heard the term sonic witch before or even sonic healing.

Abigail: 2:33

I don't think anyone uses it that I found. I like to use sonic because I don't want to exclude people who are deaf, because just because you can't quote, unquote, hear something doesn't mean that you don't feel it, which because sonic, their vibration. I call myself a sonic, which I did actually. I was an opera singer for like 13 years. I had to find a and that didn't have to. I found my way into finding another way to engage with sound. Also, it might be important. I am autistic and I also have ADHD. I was like I'm leaving out some vital information.

Kim: 3:11

Neurospeccy. People represent.

Abigail: 3:14

Yeah, literally the fact that I forgot it, even though it's the reason why I'm a witch, basically perfectly sums up, so many of us are. Yeah, I think there's a reason for that. I think there is definitely a reason. Also, I don't think we're as afraid to question the norms and then we find ourselves in interesting places as a result.

Kim: 3:39

Well, there are always question in us. Obviously, we're going to question them back.

Abigail: 3:44

I know and I'm like they are like why are you asking questions? And I'm like okay, you just kind of asked me why I exist. Hello, I'm like rude. And now I'm like and I asked you where you live, so where you been, Hi guys, yeah, no, and I'm not so high masking anymore, but when I was really high masking, like the minute I opened my mouth, people were like okay, I was duped this whole time.

Kim: 4:16

I call it my regular person costume.

Abigail: 4:19

Oh, literally, I used to zip up into it, but the only thing I couldn't hide was my areas of interest. Yes, yeah.

Abigail: 4:29

I mean, it worked out because I did opera, which for some reason people are like, oh wow, so high and far above us, and I'm like is it though? Is opera not kind of weird as well? And then I got when I started. I became a astrologer, and it's still quasi acceptable, but you lose more people along the way and I think eventually I'll end up in a spot where only the people who want to hear me will stay. So that's exciting. I'm not going to go over to it actually.

Kim: 5:02

What does it mean to you when you call yourself a witch?

Abigail: 5:07

I think I'm very much not at home in myself as a witch yet. This is like kind of in a process going on for like probably seven years now. But it's been incremental and I was deeply indoctrinated into evangelical, conservative, fundamentalist Christianity. My parents somehow managed to pack all of that in to one childhood, so it's been a process for me, I think, witch was the first moment that I kind of looked at myself as an individual with spiritual power, which I think everyone has. I don't think this is only a few of us. I think my partner, who has no interest in any of this, has their own spiritual power. They just have not chosen to like make that a study or an exploration. I think old, 40 year old men have spiritual power they often misuse. So for me, witch is really this idea of and this is definitely very individual to me, but it's very much the idea of me as an individual that goes against norms, not intentionally, but by nature. It's just accepting that my perspective is not going to fit with everyone. And in that acceptance I was then, because I was raised to be bigoted. I'm very much. When I was younger I was very much. You know everyone should do what they want. And then, once I had high school and I had been in this for a while, I was very judgmental and mentally rude about people. I was not here yelling as a teenager, so for me it was very, it's very much an all inclusive me as a person, accepting others as people and making it my goal to.

Abigail: 7:12

I think being a witch is a deep desire to create a better place in the world and to create better spaces and better energies and room for all of us, witch or not, to exist as they were supposed to, and that's supposed to is not up to me. That's supposed to is an individual journey. So it's less about me and more about me and everyone else at the same time, and that's why, also, I've come to kind of view collective liberation and activism as an innate part of me as a witch and the standard I hold other witches to. That's one of the things where I was talking, where I was like it's some witches I don't get along. Yeah, I don't think I would vibe with. I would vibe with them on the belief that everyone deserves self determination and the ability to feed themselves spiritually in whatever way they desire, as long obviously they're not causing havoc in other people's lives. I also deeply believe in the freedom of children and children having human rights which they don't have. Any rights actually Disabled people, which I'm also disabled I always forget that part too.

Abigail: 8:28

Besides the autism, I have chronic pain that everyone deserves their own power and their own place in the world, and so being a witch is that belief.

Abigail: 8:42

It's also been an invitation for me to remove preconceived notions, to explore things with neutrality to you know, obviously respectfully, discover different cultures and beliefs, and by discover I don't mean take, I mean educate myself and understand what is individual and what is collective and what belongs to everyone and what is closed practice. That has also been a part of my kind of becoming a witch, and I think initially it was just a way to say to people I'm not Christian anymore, because that happened around the same time. I was a Christian witch for like a hot second and then I was like out of here. So, yeah, I don't even know that. I know exactly what it means to me, but I do know that it means that I was. When I decided to call myself a witch, I felt released from other standards in the world, which is also part of the reason why I feel that I am non-binary because I don't. I've given myself permission to not live within those standards and to feel about myself and about others within those standards.

Kim: 10:02

I love that. It always makes me happy that most of the time people come in and say in one way or another, they say it's rebellion. Yeah, Would you say, you have any family history with witchcraft. I know you came from a conservative Christian family, but was there anything hidden in there?

Abigail: 10:28

What's really interesting is that conservative Christians really believe in other worlds, which is part of my witchcraft. I believe in multidimensions and stuff. It's not like I will argue with you about it. I just personally believe they exist, they believe in it, they believe in demons, they believe in multidimensions, they believe in spirits. It's all bad, it's all wrong. You don't touch it, which I find funny because people are like Christians don't believe in that. I'm like no, no, no, no. If you find the conservative hardcore ones, they're literally like they're probably more wild than most witches, you know, when it comes to believing in multidimensions and spirits, actually, I never thought about that.

Abigail: 11:08

Oh no, they totally do. It's interesting because a lot of conservative things do come out of full communities that have been infiltrated. I don't want to say infiltrated because I don't think Christianity itself is wrong, but they have been infiltrated by the ideology of white Christianity in America. If we're looking at America and witchcraft and what was interesting in my journey, which is also I practice personally ancestral witchcraft is finding out that the past two generations tried to erase the fact that we're from the hills of Appalachia. They pretended we didn't come from. They, like my parents, moved back to Kentucky, which my grandmother lives in West Virginia. She moved there when she was younger but and they were like, ah, this new bright land and I do genealogy research and like at least 40 to 50% of our family, you know, obviously came from the coast and then moved in but had a couple generations in Kentucky.

Abigail: 12:10

So I think that it's just kind of like most religions that come in on top of folk practices, it always gets mixed in. The conservative part just really went hardcore into hating that part of their lineage. There's no practicing witche s that I know of. I know that there would have been what we would consider now folk, witche s on probably both sides of my family, because that's how most people farmed Appalachia and planted in the hills and engaged with culture. They probably didn't view themselves as a witch, because witch has been a dirty word for a long time in those areas, even though they have, you know, yard doctors and doctors who do the same thing just under the umbrella. And I actually explored maybe Appalachian folk magic and then I tried the Bible is a huge part of it and I tried to read the Bible for spells and I felt sick because of how much I had to read it as a child. So I was like, well, I will respect that part of my ancestry but I can't do the biblical Christian part. So I think we're just gonna be back at the melting pot section, so there's no actual tie to it.

Abigail: 13:29

I had some pretty wackadoo ladies on my mother's side, very much sprinkle, sprinkle. We had multiple husbands and multiple diamond rings for that reason. So I do definitely have like women who were probably neurodivergent, just undiagnosed, who did a lot of crazy things but ultimately, even though they did kind of leave a trail of devastation sometimes in their relationships, they ultimately stood up for themselves and did what they could with the wretched hand that they had, to the point of finding a very effective way to, I think, as they should exploit wealthy men in their lives. Yeah, because they couldn't get ahold of things. But yeah, and in my ancestral practice I work with those women on my mom's side and well, I think neurodivergent runs in both sides of my family. My mom's side definitely let that flag of questionable stability fly high and embraced portions of it, whereas my dad's side definitely any neurodivergence was just tamped down and hidden as much as possible.

Kim: 14:49

Would you share, do you have any daily or regular slash, consistent things that you do not necessarily every day, but throughout the week or month that you'll share with us?

Abigail: 15:03

Yeah, the ADHD definitely comes into play, because it was hard for me for a while to get consistent ritual because sometimes me, even sitting down, I'm not medicated. We're thinking on it. I'm also worried about medication shortages. I don't wanna get help and then have to shift back yet. So it definitely took me a while and I think, especially if you're neurodivergent and having an ADHD, it's really important to give yourself permission to not force yourself into a consistent practice till you're ready.

Abigail: 15:40

I think a lot of things in magic, at least for me, have always come at the right time and in the right place and me kind of trying to like force myself into a square peg, into a round hole, before a square hole is made. For me, knowing that would probably save me some grief earlier on. Now I do do rituals around the new and full moon, just because it's a very consistent set time and for me as an astrologer there's always a lot of energy and things going on around those dates and it helps me kind of conceptualize my life within astrology. So I definitely do that. I also not every day, but I also have two separate decks that I keep for ancestors and I keep for my spirits, and I will read with one of those on different days. It's not always every day, but I try to do it once or twice a week at least. In an ancestral reading I did ask about our relationship and they did hand me a five of pentacles. So I definitely the five of pentacles is a card of loss and lack of sustenance and I was like so you need more food, gotcha? I apologize for having forgotten for a couple of weeks, and not all ancestors are like chop chop. I have a couple that are very much like the migraine ant, who was had multiple gems and jewels from her multiple partners definitely is that character.

Abigail: 17:12

So I try to interact with them consistently, even though it is hard, because I get so easily distracted and sometimes tasks scare me and I'm like oh no, it's a task I have to do, and so I find ways to remove it as a task and make it more as something that benefits me and more of a conversation, versus, if I don't show up at XYZ on this day, then bad things will happen. It's more of like I want to go spend time with my ancestors and so I will set aside that time to sit with them, or I haven't really checked in with my spirit guides in a while and I honestly probably should, so I will go do that. I also just quit one of my jobs because I'm disabled and can't really work full days anymore. So now that I'm not battling and this is not something everyone can do I have supports and people in my life who have made it possible. I don't want any neurodivergent people to feel like this is a failure.

Abigail: 18:16

I did not do this by myself. I now have more time to do those things, and what I realized is the reason I couldn't do a lot of the scheduling and the sitting and the ritual up until the last month consistently is really because I was too exhausted, and so I think it's important to recognize that if your life is really hectic, there is no right or wrong way to do witchcraft, and even if your ancestors or whoever is like chop chop, they also know what's going on and I remind them. So, yeah, I think ritual is important, but I think it's important in the framework that best suits you and the energies and the magic that you work with also understands that you are an individual. So I try not to. I do get down to myself sometimes, but I try not to, because that pressure has never helped me with that. That's good.

Kim: 19:13

I think we're so used to everyone else beating us up that we're just doing it for them.

Abigail: 19:22

Finish your job. I 100% agree. And also I think it has to do with, like, the systems that are in place, Like I think education and school is great, but the way the school system is set up is very good. Bad, there's no like as an urgent person. I was homeschooled actually my entire life until college, so I didn't experience that. But I do watch people who come out of school and come out of the strict grading system which I was also held to grades with that good bad idea, and then if you're in an organized religion or if you have a really strict culture. Unfortunately, a lot of times we get good bad thrown at us so often that we do carry it into our magical practice.

Abigail: 20:05

And part of my magical practice is dismantling things like that, not just expectations, but dismantling how I move through the world. My relatives have been here since before the Revolutionary War, so their hands are in every pull of blood across this country. I have to deconstruct what they did, Same with right and wrong. I have to deconstruct the religion that I was raised in, Same with the fact that I am white and know that I had absolutely I can't even say the things that they did to people of color in this country because they were absolutely heinous and I know that they did them in the 60s and up until the 80s, and so I have to deconstruct that and come face to face with ancestral guilt and shame which is granted in that context. So I think back to what does witch mean, which also means deconstruction of pretty much everything, and you can build some things back that are good. You don't have to just everything doesn't have to go, but there are definitely things that need to go in witchcraft, I think, in general, and in our lives personally.

Kim: 21:29

Holy crap. Okay, that's stuff I will have to think about later on. How would you say witchcraft has changed your life.

Abigail: 21:43

The whole thing because I don't have. If you notice, I talk about everything when I talk about witchcraft. I don't have boxes and I never have which I'm not saying that's 100% good. I would love to be able to store things in different parts of my life, but witchcraft has transformed pretty much the way I do everything. It's transformed all of my relationships.

Abigail: 22:05

I'm autistic and I have ADHD. I have special interests, so all you're gonna hear about is astrology, witchcraft and the last crazy spiritual journey I went on, probably with not enough spiritual protection, because sometimes I'm rash. I don't recommend, but if you have to do it, you have to do it. I'll just say that some of us are just meant to learn some hard lessons in the cosmos, so I don't interact with the world the same way I. Also because I was in a really traumatic place as a child and had no escape. I always had visions of grandeur for myself and always like I wanted to be an opera singer, I wanted to be famous, and none of those things are wrong. But I am not built for that life and if you look at my birth chart, it's not that I can't aspire to things, but I am not built for a intensely sweeping fame. I'm built for the day to day. I'm built for the simple rituals. I'm built for helping people with a moment in their life that needs to be unraveled. I'm not built to like blow your mind in a moment. I'm built to plant a little seed and then you think on it and then you put in your own fertilizer and it grows. I tend to start things. I also tend to be a mirror, which doesn't really work well, as like a famous performer, like just not.

Abigail: 23:33

And so when I found witchcraft, I was like oh, what really feeds me isn't these big moments? Cause I did well, I'm a very gifted singer. I suffered auditions and I thought they were panic attacks. They weren't panic attacks. I'm autistic and was having a mini meltdown. They're like why can't you breathe in auditions? And I was like I have no idea. Oh well, the lights were bright. I had five new people in front of me. I don't know. I ran from the subway. You can feel all your clothes, oh yeah. And then I could like sense the feelings of the pianist behind me and if they liked me or not which maybe they did, maybe they didn't but I was picking up on little pulses all the time.

Abigail: 24:13

So witchcraft has literally it shifted me away from that career path and which I had all the skills and talents for. I just didn't have the resources and I wasn't built for it. I don't have like different world with accessible things, with me being able to go in and say I'm autistic and they have space for that. But not pity, which is very important I would do fine. That's not the world we live in and I'm honestly much happier meeting people in the day to day as a witch, kind of listening to the moments.

Abigail: 24:50

I do think the minute I will eventually move out of the city and I think the minute that I do move, I will have a massive moment of connection, because it is hard to connect with the spirits of the plants in New York Cause they honestly just ripped them up if they aren't useful. I've been like all my favorite tree gone in like a day cause they didn't like it there. So it's very hard, like you can, but you just don't know when your baby is gonna be. So I really think that that's horrible. Yeah, it is, and you might be like I love they plant Hellebore everywhere here, but your favorite Hellebore plant might not be there next year if they decided to replant that section of the park.

Abigail: 25:37

I know it's very hard to identify an individual one, but there's very specifically placed in New York, so it has, even though it's hard to connect in that way, it has changed my relationship with the day to day, kind of in conjunction. My diagnosis of autism and ADHD met my witchcraft and has created a space in which I don't think calm is necessarily a good thing, but I am able to sit with myself in silence, maybe only for a minute, but when I tell you it used to be the minute I got quiet. I had 50 emotional mental memories, my throne of me and practicing witchcraft in conjunction with astrology and then knowing my diagnoses like changed me fundamentally as a person and has made me closer to the human I was as a child before I got torn up, bent, thrown around to fit other people's needs.

Kim: 26:43

So which would make you more forgiving?

Abigail: 26:46

of yourself? Oh, 100%. I have a Virgo Moon, which, in astrology, isn't a bad thing, but it makes us very internally picky, and knowing these things has enabled me to organize with that energy that I have, rather than attack and tear apart. So that kind of energy of hyper focus and wanting to craft things specifically in a positive way then becomes care and nurture, whereas before it was like that's wrong, that's wrong, that's wrong, that's wrong. You're not perfect. Redo it, try it again, do it a different way. Oh, someone else has something different that looks like that and you want that, so let's try to integrate that into you. It was a lot, and witchcraft, along with a couple other things, have allowed me to become, I think, the person that I always have been and I also will be, which has been very special.

Kim: 27:48

That sounds so great.

Abigail: 27:50

It is really great. I want that. And it's not to say that I don't struggle Like I have meltdowns, I'm autistic, we're still human. Yeah, I'm kind of. What I'm saying is like I didn't all of a sudden like reach this place, where a white light shown on me and I was like, yes, now I have attained, but it allows me to maintain and to grow at a much more consistent and gentle, caring way, which has been very beautiful.

Kim: 28:20

What would you say is the biggest motivator in your practice and has it changed since he first started?

Abigail: 28:26

Definitely when I first started. I've always had weird interactions with inanimate things, and so when I finally recognize that this is the theme of my life and I probably should get on it to realize what's happening, because whether you believe in evil spirits or not or whatever, for me in my practice I have been chased down by not the greatest unseen things. Part of it's because I am a very highly emotional person and they're like, hmm, a tasty cosmic snack. I'm like, oh no, don't touch me. So that happened to me in New York. Actually it was very terrifying. I was on a date actually and the person I was on a date with was in not a great place and I had this really kind of scary. I'm very like boss to the wall. When it comes to spirits. I'm like fuck off you loser, don't touch me. But this was one was a very persistent interaction that was not good. I was like you know what? This has happened to me more than once and I probably because for a while I kind of went away from believing in the unseen.

Abigail: 29:31

I was raised as I'm going to love this one. I was raised as a missionary kid overseas, colonizing actively. So I had a lot of kind of interesting experiences because in a survival, non-consumerist culture because of the US and the countries I was in, spirit work and spirit action and spirit connection and we were around people who worshiped demons actively, live blood sacrifices, things like that. So it's a lot of energy and it's not always safe energy, a lot of not being able to breathe and feeling heavy weights on my chest. So I had always known these things. I kind of moved away from it in college and then I had this moment and so my first thing was like I need to protect myself and I need to have all of these experiences and I need to connect with everything. And it wasn't like I wanted power in order to control things, but I was like I want to harness this so that I can manage my life better. And I was in a really not great place.

Abigail: 30:38

But years later my practice is much more about the day to day. And yeah, I do have some wild spiritual stories. It happens about four or five times a year, depending on how adventurous I am spiritually. But I focus more now on the day to day, on the development of relationship, whether that's a relationship with the plant, whether it's a relationship with a spirit or an ancestor, or even just my own environment. I also mentioned that I do sonic magic and sonic healing as well. So that's also coming back to my body, which, as an autistic person, I can't actually fully do often, even now, I cannot live in my body in its current state fully. I'm in too much pain, but I'm able to enter it in a softer way through sound and through my practice. That allows me to be present, even though a part of my brain will always have to escape a little bit, and so that's how it's changed is I use it more as a partner and a companion and something that I tend to rather than a source of energy that I go to to take from time to time when I feel a little upset.

Abigail: 32:00

When I started reading tarot first, I think a lot of us have this experience and if you aren't, you can definitely pat yourself on the back where we start reading tarot or doing any divination and we're like tell me about my life, give me answers. And I had those moments at the beginning. And now that's not the goal, to the point that I think that I am a very specific kind of reader for specific people, because I'm not going to give you the answers you probably want, because we're going to focus on you and we're going to focus on what you need to sustain yourself, rather than some future date or future partner or magical thing that will make you, like your life, better in the future. We need to meet the person that you are here and now, and manifesting is all very good. I have some conflicting feelings. I don't not believe in it, but I think if we're going to talk about manifesting, we need to talk about imprisoned people. We need to talk about people in the midst of genocides.

Abigail: 32:54

What is manifesting needs to be considered more of as an energetic thing versus how you make your life better, because I have never been able to manifest, and a lot of that has to do with the lack of resources. A lot of manifesting is being able to use what you have, and if you don't have anything, then where do you go from there? And I don't want to discredit people who do it and enjoy it, but I do think there's a larger conversation around it. So, when it comes to me as a witch and a reader, it's more about how can you meet the person that you are now, because that's the only person that you know in this moment who needs you in this moment, who is asking this question in this moment, and once you meet their needs in this moment, or at least give them space to think in that moment the future will map itself out. That's just how life is, so my readings are very much more like.

Abigail: 33:55

I can predict stuff, and I have before but it's not meaningful to me to tell you what will happen down the road or if you will have kids or not, which can be a very beautiful thing, but you can't have all those things that you want if you don't appreciate the now and if you don't appreciate this, you, this person, needs you right now as much as the person in five years will. I know I've wondered, but witchcraft has made me able to live in the moment, which is something I was never able to do as someone who is deeply desperate to escape and I'm a crier, so if I start crying, it's fine. Deeply desperate to escape their childhood and I moved into adulthood.

Kim: 34:40

Come live in my pocket and I will take care of you if you do. Thank you, that's what I want to hold everybody in.

Abigail: 34:47

I love you.

Abigail: 34:53

Even as an adult, I was so focused on getting out of where I was that it took the current pandemic that's still happening.

Abigail: 35:02

But it took the lockdowns and the stopping of life for me to realize that everything was focused on a future date. That hadn't happened yet, and I still have moments where I, you know, dream of a future where I don't have to work a muggle job and I can support myself through things that don't kill me. But I am able to live in the moment and to meet parts of myself in the moment and truly recognize in spite of pain because I have never been free from pain as a person, except when I was very young In spite, in the midst of pain and knowing that the pain is just going to be there and meeting myself and other people. And it has also helped me meet the people I need to meet, because the people who can't meet themselves in that moment not their fault, but maybe we're not meant to spend a lot of time together for now, which I used to try to hold on to as many people as possible because I was afraid I would be alone. So, yeah, magic has freed me from a lot of things.

Kim: 36:15

It sounds comforting.

Abigail: 36:18

And it is. And I think the only thing I would add is that magic freed me, but it was my magic that freed me. And this is not an individualistic moment where, like you, don't need community, but you need to recognize that enoughness, in spite of all the lack around us, is within you and is also within everyone that's around you, and that our magic is kind of like I've been stuck on this idea of like quantum physics If you're not looking at it, you don't know what it's doing and it maybe isn't happening. But observing it, practicing it, moving in it creates a response and you're really the only thing you and other people are really the only thing required for that to happen.

Abigail: 37:07

I am a tourist, so I very much like to have the bobbles and the shinies and the shinies and all the pretty things to practice with, but at the end of the day, you got a stick and yourself, and a rock, if you want to, and a half drunk bottle of water, and you don't even need that. That's magic. You don't need the shiny, expensive stuff to exist in magic, and I don't think we should push that narrative. I think we should. I love people who make beautiful, magical things. Let me tell you the amount of beautiful, magical things I love and have purchased Probably too much.

Kim: 37:50

I am one of those people, but I fully tell people you don't need all this stuff. You can use a string with something at the end of it for a pendulum. I just listed a pendulum this morning, so that's why it's on my head. You can use a string with something tied to the end.

Abigail: 38:03

That's 100%. And like if you want the pretty shiny one, which I often do, go for it, treat yourself. I think it's a good idea.

Kim: 38:10

Please come by it.

Abigail: 38:12

Yeah, go buy it, please. They're beautiful. But I think part of ancestral magic is recognizing that every single iteration of ourselves in this lifetime, or the people who came before us, they all used what they had and I think in the culture of capitalism that we live in, it is very often. We're often told that we need to get stuff and, believe me, I have probably too many tarot packs at this point, but they're also pretty and I love artists and I want their stuff in my house and if I could buy the originals and put them on my wall, I would Me drilling over originals, being like I can't afford it, but they are worth the money. Someone take them, but don't, because I want them. So, yeah, I think magic has brought me simplicity and being a witch has allowed me to recognize that, while I can be a very extravagant person in both emotion and what I like to have around me, I really only want to feel cozy and safe at the end of the day.

Kim: 39:21

That's well, that sounds very.

Abigail: 39:24

Taurus, oh yes, oh yes.

Kim: 39:30

Me too, but I want snacks in that statement.

Abigail: 39:33

Yeah, well, that's the Virgo Rising and Virgo Moon and then the Aries Venus. That's like. I need connection and also organization. That I can't maintain. I love organization. I love organization. Can I keep things organized? I do needlework and my bedside table is a mountain of floss. It's fine, I'm okay with this.

Kim: 40:03

Do you feel like you ever have imposter syndrome and if you do, what do you do about it?

Abigail: 40:08

Well, this is a good question, because I was an opera singer and I have always had imposter syndrome and I think the important thing that I have learned from being in a career that innately forces you to have it like they want you to have imposter syndrome and classical music because they want. I'll be honest, it's a very exploitative area. Any artist area and music is exploitative. But because it is often funded by the very wealthy, the people in the bottom are exploited. Most opera singers you meet are never paid what they are worth and if they're still in the system I'm like boom, what are you doing? And I love the music. But the music is also very white and very white exceptional, which is another reason I don't think I could have continued in it. But with imposter syndrome, I think it always exists and especially if you are a woman or a femme presenting person or a queer person, you will probably feel it more because we are always told that we are never enough and we are always told yeah, I was trained.

Abigail: 41:16

Why do you think I was physically abused?

Kim: 41:20

Because they were assholes, but also so you don't think you're worth anything.

Abigail: 41:26

So obviously you need to do what you say, so you can be used. So when you feel imposter syndrome, I think it's important to recognize that that is a part of yourself that has been hurt, that it's not a failing on your part. And if it's a failing on anyone's part, it's a feeling on society and the systems that encourage exploitation and encourage weakness as a way and I'll tell you about weakness in a bad way. They encourage frailty as a way to literally work you to the bone. So clearly you're not frail, and what's funny is like I always had a posture syndrome as a singer and performer, and a lot of that has to do with not knowing what my body was doing. But as a witch, I have much less.

Abigail: 42:09

And I think that is the part where you understand that magic is yours and also not yours, and that it doesn't live on a spectrum of good or bad or right or wrong. It exists purely. And I believe that about planets and stars, they just exist, they are neutral, they're a way of interpretation, they mirror what's happening. And so, as a witch, if you start to question yourself, firstly, most of the stuff we do you can't see. So what are you judging it on? Because, like, oh my gosh, I don't actually physically see the manifestation of my spirit guide. A lot of us don't.

Kim: 42:52

Looking at the Instagram picture and see if it's as pretty as this other one.

Abigail: 42:57

Exactly To understand that it is all subjective and that a lot of the things that we see are not real. And when you realize that nothing is real and also everything is which I know sounds a little woo-woo, but that's just how it is you start to realize that so is your perception of your ability. And something that people don't know is that music is a harmonic structure and when you make a sound, it becomes a series that never ends. We don't know the end of sound, you just can't hear it anymore. And if you think of yourself as a witch we all are vibrations, as a harmonic series you're the edges of your soul are not definable. Who you are as a person is not definable, and as humans we seek to define. That is kind of a nature we have. But to understand that that is a journey, not a destination, and that even the body that you live in doesn't have a physical edge and I'm talking as a disabled body, like my disabled body that has limitations doesn't have an edge that I can find this is hurting my brain.

Kim: 44:02

It's hurting my brain already.

Abigail: 44:05

I know and it does and like. The reason it doesn't hurt my brain is because I've let the end of that question go. I don't want to know the end, I don't need to know the end. But when you realize that we don't even know the ending of a sound, you will soon realize that the people who think they know everything know less than the people who think they know nothing. And it's very important to understand that structure and power and borders and hierarchies especially as an autistic person are an illusion. They're not real.

Abigail: 44:44

And when you realize that and you look at imposter syndrome and imposter syndrome is simply you not fitting into the system in a way that feels valuable from what you've been told, but yeah, literally. But you literally just existing and pulsing as a particle on this planet is more than enough value than any action you may take. Like existing and having made it this far or not having made it this far Because some of us don't is deeply valuable. And since no one can calculate the ending of you, they also can't calculate your value. So I still struggle with like and I've had it recently where I was like I don't read.

Abigail: 45:39

You know astrology the same way other people do, so now I need to like educate myself. And my mentor was like, maybe you're just different, Maybe you don't need to be other people. And then I was like, yeah, maybe I should be which I don't novel idea maybe I should just be me. And when you start to realize that maybe you should just be me and it's all subjective and the little tiny stuff you do that no one sees is just as powerful as, like getting a degree or seeming successful, if not more powerful because you showed up for yourself in that moment, then you know you start to lose the thread that insecurity comes from.

Kim: 46:28

Well, that's going to hurt my head a lot later when I'm editing and thinking oh, my brain.

Abigail: 46:34

And I mean, if someone really breaks it down, I'm pretty much saying everything and nothing at the same time, which I recognize. Sometimes I get to the end of a sentence and I'm like where did I start? That thought I'm not sure.

Kim: 46:47

Okay, what's your favorite tool? It does not have to be a physical object. It can be a theory or an idea or a song. In your practice, and why? How do you use it?

Abigail: 46:59

I really think for me this is like two. One of them is humming. I really enjoy humming and I've actually been doing a series for myself, mostly on Instagram, where I hum for a minute a day because humming is not just like a spiritual practice but it also helps tune your vagal nerve and it helps calm you down and it's known to lower your heart rate and yeah and like this stuff is like actually proven. It's not just like pulled out. People have done studies on like they'll. They do it on bigger skills like singing but just the simple act of humming no skill set, no training, nothing, just the humming itself allows you to calm your body and to enter it and for me, I don't have to fully be in my body when I'm humming, but it's the closest I get safely when I hum. So I've been doing like a hum a day on a video and just kind of talking about something small. But it's something that I also find when I try to do like a spiritual journey or something. I have to be careful because if I hum while doing it I might eat myself into another, another, at least mental dimension. But it also allows you to vibrate with everything that's around you and kind of create a sound or frequency that the stuff that you live with will vibrate to as well, and then you also hum, based on your environment. So it's this beautiful kind of creates a symbiosis between the world around you and yourself. My goal is to, over time, make it longer, but, like I said, adhd. So right now we're at a minute and I'm proud of myself. So I use humming.

Abigail: 48:40

When I do spells, I do humming. I use humming to charge things. Like, if you want to charge a crystal, pop it. You don't even have to put it to your throat, I put it to my throat, you can pop it, I pop it to your throat. I don't really use crystals anymore. It's a personal thing.

Kim: 48:54

I really thought you're going to say in your mouth and I was like yes.

Abigail: 48:57

I mean, honestly, do what you will. I have to care I just don't choke on it. I could make a joke about putting a lot of things in my mouth but, like, just don't harm yourself, make sure it has a flared face, guys. Hello, exactly so humming is one of them. Humming and sounding practice is also very important to note come from India and that area of the Peninsula, so very important to note that, like pretty much anything we know about sound comes from there, and all the doctors that study sound now that are white and have their names on books, they learned it from that part of the world. Don't let them fool you. That's where sound healing comes from. It comes from, like, south Asia and then a little bit out into the East, roughly so. And of course we have other examples like throat singing and things like that. All of those are connected to humming and sound.

Abigail: 49:57

So I really firmly believe in using sound in practice. You don't have to. But if you have an inclination towards sound and I want to be clear, not pretty sound, just sound or vibrations does not need to be pretty. In fact, you might use ugly as a tool, or what you consider ugly as a tool to work in your practice.

Abigail: 50:17

And then another one is my imagination. I think it's using you know, I've been through a couple of spiritual experiences recently where I've been in my brain but not at least for me in a way but our imaginations are so rich and fruitful and deep, and using that as a way to connect to ourselves and spirit and also transport ourselves into different, either real or perceived spaces, I think as practice practitioners and witches, I think using the imagination as more than just some silly little game in our head. I think the imagination is incredibly powerful and I think in my practice and in my life, my imagination, while mildly, if not more than mildly, unhinged, has so much power and so much depth that playing with your imagination can be, I think, a beautiful part of a spiritual practice.

Kim: 51:24

I don't really hum because I got sick a lot as a kid and so I lost a lot of range. I whistle. Do you think that? Yeah, I know it's not going to give you exactly the same.

Abigail: 51:40

It's not going to shake you as much in your face. But the thing about humming is you don't need range. When I say humming, I mean just sound. Any pitch you want doesn't matter, just making a sound. When I say humming, I don't mean like humming a tune, because I don't. A lot of people my partner can't really hold a tune and they get really frustrated. So I don't know, literally just a pitch. And if someone wants to try it, I would suggest just doing incremental and letting it be what it is Like. For me, a lot of times it's literally just the feeling of calm that a minute of humming brings. Sometimes it can, sometimes, I know I just thought about kazoo, oh yeah. Well, yeah, I mean honestly, if you want to like do some heavy protection with a kazoo, I invite you. What spirit is going to want to hang tight for that? Like no, and that's kind of what I think. Magic is so great because, yeah, bring the kazoo.

Kim: 52:41

I actually. One of the boxes I did recently was an inner child box and I included a kazoo. So everybody who got that box, I have a child.

Abigail: 52:51

You can do protection work with your kazoo. I had my a kazoo as a child and I terrorized adults more than normal. It was great Good.

Kim: 53:01

It was brief because the order from school.

Abigail: 53:04

Yes, that, and they I mean they eventually took it away from me, but I was, I was cast in.

Kim: 53:10

No, I don't know where the top is. Kiddo, I don't know, it's just lost pretty much.

Abigail: 53:15

They were a little more aggressive about it. They took it from me, but they didn't paint a beautiful picture of an imaginary loss Just going. Yeah, oh my gosh.

Kim: 53:29

That's right. I love that. What is something you wish was discussed more in the witch community?

Abigail: 53:37

I really think access, access for everyone, yes, I think whether it is for people of color. Because I had a moment I nanny it's my other job and I went for the first time to pick up my kid from the new school and I get really nervous about new things and I walked up to the door and I was kind of having a little mini panic attack and it just hit me if I was in. A lot of the nannies that I have worked around have been women of color and I just had a moment where I realized and this is very much me and my whiteness being clueless where I realized that I was in no actual danger because I look like a mom. I look like a rich mom from New York, like maybe one of the weird ones from Brooklyn's, but still I, as a non-binary person, I still present them and I realized that if a person of color was coming they would be in trouble. The guard might not let them in. They have actual fears and I think that's often ignored by witches who are not people of color, who are white in the community of. I obviously have a lot of issues with access and stuff, but comparatively Nothing compared to my black and brown autistic siblings. A lot of my fears are imagined because I don't know that I'll be able to mask in that moment and maybe one day, because I am slowly unmasking and it's getting harder and I don't have the skills anymore. But to just know that in witchcraft we need to provide access for everyone and that includes access for people's anger Against things that we do. We do have to take bullying, but to recognize and allow people to have feelings in magic about things, I think it would also eliminate a lot of bullying issues we have if we allowed people to express and feel their frustrations in magic communities.

Abigail: 55:37

I don't think a lot of times when we talk about spiritual stuff, we talk about, like you know, feminine rage or whatever. I don't think we talk about anger and hurt and expressing those experiences in our community and understanding that someone. You can hurt someone and they can tell you and you can say, oh my gosh, I am sorry. I will do my utmost to never do that again. Thank you for telling me how harmful my actions were and if you don't want to follow me or you want to tell someone else not to follow me because you don't think I'm a safe space, that's on me for my actions.

Abigail: 56:18

And I think it's the same with disabled people. Not allowing disabled people to say hey, I don't feel welcome, and then just blocking them and like maybe you're not able I don't know, for whatever reason to make your space accessible, which I'm very much air quoting, and I think it's not that hard, but why wouldn't you want it to at least be the borderline of safety for everyone? Like maybe not everyone wants to come and be included because everyone's different, but I think we need to have a lot more talks about creating space and I think it's a very I could be wrong, but I think it's a very white person concept that when someone brings a concern to you or a frustration that it makes you all be, it makes you all bad, and it's either block them or don't block them, or this is very much an unbaked thought. But I just see such extreme reactions to people saying I've been hurt, I don't feel safe here, I don't feel like whatever you did was accessible to my community and I would like to have access.

Abigail: 57:26

Someone is telling you they want to be involved in your practice and the things you do. If you have a public practice, isn't that the goal? And it's not for everyone. But I think we need to open up the discussion to allowing spaces for pain and for grievance and not turning it into a war of he said, she said, because magic is innately controversial and innately different and my favorite thing about it is you don't have, you can exist in controversy without being like, well, I'm never going to think about that again.

Abigail: 58:04

There's ideas and thoughts and magic I don't enjoy or I don't practice. It doesn't mean that I say that person's wrong. I don't know, I think it's. I feel like I'm rambling, but I think the overall thing I wish was talked to more more about was just there's a lot of acceptance for different practice, even though sometimes not, but there's very little acceptance for differences.

Abigail: 58:26

And when people say, hey, I need help, or hey, I'm not being represented or listened to, or I don't have as much reach as you do because I don't look like you, can you like push out a post, like, yeah, do it? Like, what does it hurt? Like, obviously. Like, if you want to do your research, just to make sure you're doing stuff, go check out their page. But like a mutual comes to you and says, hey, I'm not getting reach, can you help me Pop it out, especially if they're a person of color or disabled, because there's so much valuable content.

Abigail: 59:00

And as a singer, I know this deeply. I have known so many wildly talented musicians and singers who will never be famous due to access or due to one person who doesn't like them, or due to someone in power shutting off their ability to be seen like mind blowing musical talent, perfect for what people want, but because of circumstances, they will never be seen. It is the same with public facing witches there are some beautiful, magical people who, through access or disability or the color of their skin, will not see the same success as someone and it doesn't make them better or worse as someone with equal skill and talent. So it's not. The internet is not an equal competition and it's not a competition, it's just existing. So I think yeah, I know I'm rambling, but in which practice?

Abigail: 1:00:00

Definitely the space to just listen to other people's feelings and to respectfully interact with them around their feelings. And if you don't have the capacity, say it, I can't hold this for you right now. And you know, and everyone's like, yeah, you're gonna. I block people all the time, like even like someone follows me, and I'm like, oh, I don't think you really want my content for what you are, what I want my content to be for.

Abigail: 1:00:31

Like old, creepy men who follow me all the time and I'm like you didn't read my bio. I block them all the time, like no, not today, sir, as you tried to slide into my DMs right before I hit block button but, yeah, I think grossed, oh, my entire life. I'm like leave me alone, no one wants you. So yeah, I know I've rambled a bit, but really just the space to hold space for other people and not to be so hyper protective of the platforms and the spaces we've created, because we're stronger as a group than we are picking each other off, even if we have like barely anything in common. Like that's fine, I don't have a lot in common with a lot of people.

Kim: 1:01:23

Think about the three biggest influences on your practice, whether it is a person or a piece of music or an idea. You heard once Thank them for what they've done in your practice.

Abigail: 1:01:43

So three. Okay, I think this is going to be a little more general, but I think it counts. I think one of the biggest and I'm going to get to you, so prepare yourself are animals. I have never had a lot of friends and throughout my life which I think is definitely tied to my current craft the animals that I have had have taught me about connecting with the world around them, because that's what animals do they exist in their environment. I had a black cat who had three legs and he tragically disappeared. Probably coyotes I devastated. I have not gotten over that loss.

Abigail: 1:02:34

He was so strong and so protective of himself and he let me in and, as a child that didn't understand boundaries or care, it has helped me interact with spirits, because now I understand what access feels like, because eventually he gave me access and I had an older horse Definitely not a magical creature. God bless Spencer. Very much. Did you know horses can be addicted to oxygen? He was actually. Yeah, they can give themselves an oxygen rush and it makes them a little druggy horse. I don't want to get druggy as rude, but like someone who is very much, you know, addicted to something. So I was doing some training with him and I was a very hurt child and I lashed out an anger multiple times, something that is very upsetting to me still. But he was so patient and so enduring that I learned to be patient and I learned to sit in my feelings of having hurt another creature and to know that I had to change. And in magic, that has taught me that I can make mistakes and I can even lash out, and I've never done that again. But I can even lash out and I can still come back, you know, to myself and to that pain and to that anger, and I can share it with someone and I can go back and I can apologize to them, even if they don't ask for it, which I think is very important when you're working with spirits, to be intuitively connected in that way, because if the spirit is not always going to tell you to apologize, just like animals, your environment is not always going to afford you those things.

Abigail: 1:04:57

So, yeah, I think animals. I have my own little small dog who is very much a diva love, love, reggie, to death, you know. But he has also taught me how to enjoy stuff. That dog loves food and I I'm recovering from an eating disorder. So animals and that can be my three.

Abigail: 1:05:19

Honestly, animals have taught me how to exist and how to live in boundaries and how to repair boundaries without being told, which, as a name of my care for children as a nanny, is so important. When I have stepped on a child's boundary or a spirit's boundary, I can say I messed up and they didn't say anything. I'm a walk it back and I'm gonna say you know what? You didn't ask for an apology, but I know that that wasn't okay and that has been such a huge lesson in my life as someone who tends to be very you know, go straightforward and feel really bad about the past but do nothing about it. Yeah, I would say those three animals Pete Spencer and Reggie are probably the one of the greatest influences in my life, magic and otherwise, and probably some of my deepest friendships honestly, Do you advice?

Kim: 1:06:29

do you have advice for anybody just starting out?

Abigail: 1:06:33

Trust yourself. I know right, this is not, once again, no Tito shade but I don't really believe in the term baby witch, and part of that's because I also believe in not a very secure. It's not a belief based on me being like I know everything about it, but I believe in reincarnation and multiple lives. We're never babies and we're always like I especially rail against like children having less I mentioned this having less power and control, and people always talk about how it's for their own good and I'm like you can let your kid wear whatever t-shirt they want and still tell them to eat breakfast. Like it's not that hard. And I've worked with kids in New York, especially, where parents are so controlling and view children as possessions literally. So my thing is to understand that, like you're never going to attain like full knowledge or full like you know, power to know exactly what you're talking about and then say it and be right basically, or in same thing, in magic, and you're also. I never want to stop being excited and young and new in a practice. So when someone's first starting out, I think the thing that I think is important is to know that all of your life has brought you to this point. Maybe you started a practice yesterday. You have an entire life and, because I do believe in lifetimes, reincarnation and the ability to communicate with multiple parts of yourself, this is very much me. You are all of you at all times. You don't need to diminish your knowledge if you understand that you can always be a learner. You can always find something. You can learn from someone who isn't at all interested in magic. You can learn from a baby. You can learn from a cat or a dog. You can just watch a grasshopper and get a life lesson. So when you're coming into witchcraft, know that if you do call yourself a baby witch it doesn't mean that you don't know anything. It just means that maybe you don't have a ritual set up and you have a lot to learn. But I have a lot to learn.

Abigail: 1:09:20

I don't think I've come home to what being a witch is for me yet, and I don't know that I ever will. I do think I'll find some kind of feeling of weight and stability down the road, but I don't think I'm ever going to be like. This is my craft and I think any witch who's been doing this for any longer than a year to six months will tell you that your craft is never the craft it was yesterday. And so, as a baby witch, don't worry about being new. New is only a weird thing in capitalism because they're going to pay you less. You don't have experience. What's wrong with you? It's not a big deal, no one has experience, and the people who got the job showed up and probably just had one thing right on their resume Same with being a witch. This is supposedly it's supposed to not be an exploitative practice. So being young and fresh doesn't matter.

Abigail: 1:10:23

And should you use your intuition on advice giving and things? Yes, but I also believe in the trust of self and I also believe in the rightness of where you are in the moment. So if someone comes and asks you for witch advice and you've been doing it for three days either say I don't know or let your intuition give them a gem. I don't think that you know. It should stop you. And yeah, you're going to say some crazy stuff at some point in time. Everyone does. At the beginning of something I have literally said like the wildest and looking back, I'm like, yeah, that was definitely not at all formatted or understood. I hope that person got something from it, hopefully. So yeah, so for young witches, I think you need to know that you're everything all the time, and you don't need years or credentials or tools to be a witch. You just need to know that to be a witch is to not know, and that's important and it's okay and it's the beauty of whatever form you practice, of being one.

Kim: 1:11:42

After you've answered these questions and you've seen the full list of questions and everything, who do you think I should have on the show to answer these questions?

Abigail: 1:11:51

That's hard, because I know you've had some people that I know I'm trying to think, because I know I'm going to probably pick someone you already have or not. I don't know if you've had the Zine Witch on another. Yeah, the Zine Witch, they're a autistic astrologer and I think their pronouns are sheer, but don't check me on that. I don't tend to see a lot of people in gender. So sometimes I'm like especially fellow autistics I'm like we are beings of light Maybe not light, but beings of a lot of things. Gender is not one of the ones I think of. So the Zine Witch would be great, which is funny because whenever we do, whenever, I'll just use they.

Abigail: 1:12:36

For now they have me on their podcasts the Keen Witch and the Zine Witch. And then there's I don't know if they fully identify as a witch, but I know they do have practice, which is Anthony Perrata. They're my mentor and they're an excellent astrologer and tarot reader, and they also do a lot of work around astrology and fashion and the things that you wear. So those are two that I definitely. I know you've had left to slain. That was another one, but I know, I know you've already had them on.

Kim: 1:13:13

Was there anything else you wanted to bring up, any specials you have about to happen, any events you're going to be at, or did you have any questions for me?

Abigail: 1:13:25

No, I don't really think so. I'm always just doing things. If you have any questions, there's my website. I am someone who will answer their DMs if I find them. So if you have any questions about sound or anything similar and if I don't know the answer, I'll send you somewhere else where you can get one. So yeah, I mean I offer specials on and off and, honestly, if someone comes into my DMs and tells me that they really need help and only have X number of dollars, we'll make it work, Because I don't want to limit access to something that I find really valuable just based on a price tag.

Kim: 1:14:09

The last two things I ask of my guests are number one please recommend something to the listeners. It doesn't have to be related to witchcraft at all. Just whatever you're into this week, recommend it.

Abigail: 1:14:26

I would recommend this is very earth sign. I would recommend finding something you can do with your hands. I do cross stitching. It doesn't have to be something you monetize, but I think, as a witch, it is really important for us to work both in the physical and in the other world and using your hands and your body, and it doesn't have to be the hands specifically, but your body is really important and it's not something that I came to naturally. It took me a while to come to it. You don't be artistic, don't be good at it but I really do think taking energy and putting it somewhere, in a way that doesn't have any requirements, in a way that doesn't have any speculation, that makes you happy, is really important. I have my little cross stitch over here. So, yeah, just I've been really thinking about, you know, involving all of me in my practice, and so just trying to find something to do with your body doesn't even have to be witchy. I mean, I do witchy things with it, but that's just because everything's all consuming for me.

Kim: 1:15:37

The last thing is please tell me a story.

Abigail: 1:15:41

Oh gosh, I have so many stories, I think. Well, I work with children a lot and I think one of the most interesting things with having worked with a lot of kids and is that one of the kids I worked with made me believe in reincarnation, like just existing with them. I was like you have existed before and it was not positive, I will say that. And I was very careful I want to preface this with not putting any of the issues because they were two they were having on them personally Just a lot of their behavior was even too fresh for their parents to have gotten them there. And let me tell you there's so much behavior.

Abigail: 1:16:27

But, yeah, this child was deathly terrified of fire alarms, like terrified. Terrified, not just like loud noise, no, no, specifically fire alarms. When I saved him from a tree branch, braining him on the head and it was like this big around, so it would have been bad. This child would not walk under trees or touch trees for like months, which, if you know, like baby brains children some children do, but not many children are like. I remember the specific moment. This is the bad guy.

Abigail: 1:17:03

They also would say strange things to me and, existing around them, I was like you got some baggage baby, you've carried some things from somewhere else and while I will, they were not my cup of tea and I very 100% believe that, like you don't have to like someone to show them love and to show them care. So I still fully cared for and nurtured this child as a caregiver, but, yeah, some of the stuff was a little creepy. Honestly, children are explorative and hands on, and this child was as well, but the dead eye contact was a little uncomfortable. Yeah, I was like, hmm, I feel like I'm with an adult right now. So, yeah, that is how a child changed my entire perspective on life and whether we live multiple lifetimes or not.

Abigail: 1:18:11

And when I left, I read that well, unlike little like I met. I met this kid at 18 months and by like two years I was like, and I left him with a blessing and with a warning. I was like I love you. Know, at that point I did love them, even though we were not mashed. I just kind of love anything I spend time around long enough and I was like I wish you safety and protection, etc. But if you harm other people, my love, just don't do that.

Abigail: 1:18:43

Just don't do it. And that is what I left them with when I ended that job, intentionally for myself, because the parents were a problem. But yeah, that's how I became to believe in reincarnation.

Kim: 1:19:00

Well, thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure. You made my brain hurt a little bit. I will be delving into that later.

Abigail: 1:19:10

I apologize and I will warn you that you might delve into it and go. I'm not sure they were saying anything at all. You can either have your mind blown or be like Cosmic Mush.

Kim: 1:19:22

Possibly, both Probably. It will probably be fine, but thank you again. Thank you Everybody. Be sure to go, follow her on Instagram and everywhere else, and I will see you on the Internet. Okay, bye, bye, and now, abigail, welcome to Hype House, thank you, thank you. First we're going to do questions, random questions. Let me not look at the questions while I'm pulling the cards. These are just. It's like an icebreaker set From something called let's Get Deep, ooh.

Abigail: 1:20:14

Say when, when.

Kim: 1:20:18

What's the best birthday gift you've ever received?

Abigail: 1:20:22

My sound canceling headphones from my printer. I know how much importance that carries. So, yeah, we probably ate rodents that may. I probably had some rodents that aren't even in like actual books, Because you just don't know what's what's in those lands. Yeah, they'll just you see a random pelt and be like that's not something I've ever seen before. So, yeah, definitely, I'm, I'm, I'm not identified rodent also.

Kim: 1:21:42

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