Via Hedera. Witch, author, sculptor, diviner

In this episode I’m talking to Via Hedera, who describes herself as an author, sculptor, diviner, and general menace.  We talked about why we do witchcraft, working with the dead, and how witchcraft connects us.

viahedera.com

Transcript

Welcome back to Your Average Witch, where every Tuesday we talk about witch life, witch stories, and sometimes a little witchcraft. This episode of Your Average Witch is brought to you by Crepuscular Conjuration. In this episode I'm talking to Via Hedera, who on her website describes herself as an author, sculptor, diviner and general menace. We talked about why we do witchcraft, working with the dead, and how witchcraft connects us. Now let's get to the stories.

Kim: Via, hello! Welcome to the show!

Via: Hello! Thank you for having me!

Kim: Thank you for being here. I'm very excited to talk to you. Can you please let everybody know who you are and what you do and where they can find you?

Via: Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Via Hedera. I'm a Seattle-based animist, occultist, folklore researcher, sculptor, author, and hellspawn. My pronouns are she and her, and you can follow me on Instagram, Facebook, or at viahedera.com. I am speaking to you from the occupied Duwamish Territory, specifically from the Duwamish River waterway where I live, and I honor the Coast Salish people, their sovereignty, and their commitment to the restoration of this land, their culture, and the identity of this place, as well as the bones that rest here.

Kim: I like the way you said that.

Via: It's the realest I could make it.

Kim: Now what does it mean to you when you call yourself a witch?

Via: I love this question, actually, because it can change a little bit depending on what time of the year you're asking me. But in general, when I say that I'm a witch, I mean that I am a morally ambiguous practitioner of magic and the occult. I feel no particular allegiance to any doctrine or methodology, save those that I find like the most self-serving, which to me sort of sets the witch apart from any other practitioner, is that we have the nebulousness and the ambiguity and the latitude to be self-determining. And I think that's sort of what our nature is, is simply by the virtue of being, quote, like an other, or a rebel, or an outcast. We're a person of mystery, we're just a person of radical independence. So when I say witch, I mean that that's how I view my practice of magic, is somebody who answers solely and only to myself.

Kim: That's one of my favorite things about people's definitions generally, is they're like, don't tell me what to do. 

Via: Basically, you know, I admit I consider a witch to be a self-serving character. I believe that, you know, magical practitioners of all kinds, we're very different, and healers often serve the community or they work for others. Lots of spiritual leaders serve their community, but I think a witch is set apart because she's a fringe item, or he is a fringe item, they are a fringe item. They serve themselves. They serve whatever their pact or their spirit or their mastery was, and it can be, it could be anything. A witch could be anybody. They could be the person next to you. They could be someone who's undiscovered yet. It's pretty awesome to me because the witch is the most independent form of spirituality I can think of. It's the ultimate think for yourself spirituality.

Kim: Oh, somebody needs to t-shirt that.

Via: I need that. Note to self.

Kim: Yes, trademark TM. Copywritten. 

Via: So yeah, I'd say I very much consider myself a witch. I am not a healer, I am not a cunning woman, I am not a charmer, I am not a conjure doctor, I don't pursue earnings from anything I do magically. I do for my art, but not for my magic. I kind of consider myself a tamperer, and I trade in curiosity, so that's what I'm-

Kim: Oh, that's another good t-shirt one!

Via: I'm a tamperer who trades in curiosity. Something a little sexy about that, I'm also adding that to the list.

Kim: Now, would you say you have a family history with witchcraft or a magical practice? Do you have any stories from childhood where your family might not say, oh yeah, we're a bunch of witches, but they are out lighting candles for luck or whatever?

Via: Oh, they would easily admit that they practice magic, or that their religions involve magical practice. Most of my family members, I'd say, they wouldn't consider it witchcraft because, much like me, they define a witch as morally ambiguous and untethered to a specific dogma or organized religion for the most part. They see witchcraft as being sort of set apart from that. So their magic, which can vary from Catholic folk magic to Santeria, to everything in between. I have a lot of practitioners within the family and it was a very standard, routine way of living for me. So I wasn't really all that aware that other households weren't like that. I thought everybody was as superstitious and had as many rituals as my giant, crazy family did, but I didn't realize that was kind of just us. We were so multi-ethnic, so multi-religious, but so superstitious on every side, that no matter where I went, they had their own sense of how things needed to be done to appease the dead or appease the living or everything in between. And so that was completely normalized to me. I remember being really weirded out going into people's houses and not seeing specific charms or specific saints or soferas on people's altars. I remember finding it weird that I would go into people's houses when I moved to Washington and they didn't put pennies above their door to bring in the luck. Or they had never heard of rubbing eggs on your stomach and breaking them behind your head when your tummy hurts. And I thought everybody's tia did that, but no, it was my tia. Rest her soul. So to me, magic was very normalized because the dead and belief that the dead were still with us was completely normalized pretty much on all sides of my family. So while we did have a few aunties who would probably call themselves witches in impolite company, outwardly they just, they'll say anything to avoid being labeled a witch, even though that's exactly what they're doing. And I've seen their voodoo dolls, so I don't know why they're playing. We all know they're doing it. I don't know why so many women in the family act like they're not stabbing dolls, but we know they're doing it. I've seen it. And I admit to it.

Kim: I wish my family had done something to honor or respect or something, anything for the dead because I have a huge fear of dead human beings and dying. So, I've marginalized it a little bit.

Via: Actually, it happens. I mean, my sister, she's fairly uncomfortable with death and she was raised just like me. We're only a year and 11 months apart. And I, you know, she doesn't love the end of that spectrum of death, but she, much like me, was raised where, I mean, it doesn't really matter if you're afraid or not, you have to honor them or else, you know, you don't want your grandma from the other side getting pissed at you and then you get bad dreams. I was raised in the belief that our ancestors, our grandmas especially, are constantly watching and scrutinizing us from the other side. So if you didn't leave them out the plate at Christmas, and if you don't do the specific rituals and keep one of the perfumes on your altar, you're gonna hurt grandma's feelings and you're gonna get haunted and nobody wants that. So, it's more about just making grandma and the ancestors happy for some of the others. But for me, it got a lot deeper. I was like, oh, you guys are really useful on the other side, that's cool. We can work this out. But I'd say even in my family, there are people who very much fear the dead, which is why they are very careful to honor them. And then there are people like me who, I mean, I'm scary. Give me nightmares. Freak me out. That's fun. I love scary movies for a reason. I love when the spirits show up and are just, you know, boom. That's pretty rad. So for me, I'm like, sure, you know, feed the dead, let them in. My sister's like, oh, great. Yay. 

Kim: What you just, what you said just horrified me.

Via: (laughs) Oh, sorry. Yeah, you know, everybody's got their vices.

Kim: Well, what is your practice like? Do you have anything that you do every day or maybe not daily, but consistently?

Via: I do. I do every day, or maybe not daily but consistently? I do. I, you know, my tradition keeps a very consistent sort of passage of hours or book of hours, which is the observation of specific holy days throughout each month of the whole year. So other than observing like the months, the Sabbaths or Hecate's Supper on the new moon, within our tradition, there's, I mean, there's like an occasion for everything. There's an occasion to celebrate the burning of the evergreens, which is today. And then there's epiphany, or for us, it's the feast of Mother Apple, tomorrow. We it's pretty, I'm very consistent. And I think of all the things I do, that's the most consistent in my spiritual practice, iis I am very observant of my Friday dedications to Venus. Bless her holy name as today. Venus and Fridays, you know, they go together and Friday happens to also be one of the, in American folklore at least, one of the days of the witches and the days of the devil. And it also happens to correspond with Venus, glittering beautiful star Venus, and I'm very observant of that and I think people who follow me on Instagram will see that regularly every few Fridays I'll post my altar or my shrine room about her because that's a pretty important facet. I'm very tuned into that aspect of my spirituality and very dedicated to Venus as the star of witches. So I'd say that's probably my most consistent is I'm very strict about observing Venus on Friday.

Kim: I forgot it was Friday.

Via: I know, right? 

Kim: I mean, in that way. There are other things that I remembered, but I forgot that part of it. I actually do do a couple things on Fridays, but I forgot, but it's not over yet. I'm fine. It's still good. 

Via: Yeah, you still got you, homies. Yeah, it's only one o'clock here in Seattle, so there's at least two hours of daylight left for things to get done. 

Kim: How would you say witchcraft has changed your life? 

Via: You know, I'm one of those people that has, I think I have a difficult time connecting. A lot of times I find myself daydreaming and I'm very independent. I love doing my own thing and I find the pressure, social pressure to be extremely difficult. I fully embrace the fact that I'm, you know, social phobic to a degree. I'd say like pretty high social anxiety. And the way that witchcraft affects my life in such a positive way is that it helps me form connections with people. Everyone has some sense of magic in their background or life, even if they don't know about it. And it actually recently happened to me at a New Year's Eve party. I went and met a bunch of people I've never met before from my partner's end. 

Kim: Cool.

Via: Yeah, I was terrified. It's just my partner's friends, and I'm like, I don't know any of these people. I've met like maybe one before. And there was 20 people, and I was so nervous because none of them know who I am. And somehow, of course, inevitably, the concept of ghosts came up. Then someone turned and asked my partner, my partner turns to me and says, you know, if you want to talk ghost or magic, ask my partner, ask Via. Suddenly I've got, you know, five, six people around me talking to me about their experiences with ghosts, witchcraft, fairies, astral projection. That was amazing. I had a girl telling me some fascinating stuff about leaving her body and it was just awesome. Like I felt all these connections and it's the hardest thing in the world for me to do is to do small talk. So for it's witchcraft to be this thing that's not small, it's big talk for me. It contains everything and it connects everyone and can permeate through religions, cultures, age frames. It's so connecting and everyone has something magical that they could talk about. And I think witchcraft, just having it exist in the world as this connection, is everything. I mean, it's been life-changing and very healing for somebody who very much is a solitary person. It offers a connection that kind of, I wouldn't say I wouldn't be able to find any other way, but I'd say I found it in the most meaningful and understanding way. And there's something about everybody learning each other's language and speaking this one language, this language of superstition and magic and mystery. It's cross-cultural and it crosses every kind of boundary. And I love flying to that place with people.

Kim: I have not thought about it in that way, but I absolutely agree. If it weren't for my practice, I would be minus so many people. 

Via: Legit. I definitely would. It's really hard for me to socialize and Seattle is famous for being a very socially stilted place. So, to have something that opens up people to me and makes them vulnerable, I love being able to be that emotionally open for people and be someone they can be vulnerable with and tell me that they're scared. And they're with someone who's, you know, like, hell yeah, bring on the demons, you know, like I'm all about being scared. I'm not bothered by the fear. The fear helps me feel alive. So it's really, it's really, it's a wonderful sense of connection, these threads.

Kim: I don't want to be that alive.

Via: (laughs) That's alright. You only get one or maybe a few more, I'm not sure yet, but in this lifetime I've decided to just, you know, go just fall off the wall, be terrified, live in a Cronenberg movie.

Kim: There's other stuff I'll do that's terrifying, but I don't want to be around a bunch of people and actually talk to them. I want to jump out of a plane, but I don't want to talk to anyone while I do it.

Via: I would rather go skydiving than socialize most of the time. Absolutely. High five on that.

Kim: Well what is the biggest motivator in your practice? Is it the connection or is it something else?

Via: Oh, I'm going to be real with you. My biggest motivator is vanity and self-indulgent. I mean, why else would I be doing magic if not to serve my own interests? I do not know. Honestly, I feel like that's like the default reason a lot of people get to witchcraft and they feel it's too crass to say that, but I'm not too-

Kim: Because we want stuff.

Via: Right, I want shit. I'm a dink who practices traditional witchcraft, so I feel no shame in saying that I do what I do to serve myself and live deliciously.

Kim: Yes, yes.

Via: That's the motivator. I want to eat butter and wear pretty dresses and dance naked in hot chicks in the forest. That's all I've ever wanted. Naked in the woods, buttered. Yes. Goats. That's what I'm talking about. So my biggest motivator is just the curiosity, the fun, the getting things, the extensive achievement I feel when I walk out of a ritual feeling like the sexiest chick in the world, or just the incredible dynamic of a human body, you know? Like, any of it. I am here for the thrills. 

Kim: Would you say that your motivation has changed since you first started out?

Via: No. I was always a vain child. I was a vain and self-serving child. I was a middle child and very independent and very alone. So I was like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to get mine. I'm going to have no kids. I'm going to get a high-end finance job.  I'm going to become a traditional witch, and I'm going to rule the world. I feel like I'm about 2% there, so we're climbing.

Kim: That all sounds great, though, really.

Via: Oh yeah. It's working for me.

Kim:  What would you say is your biggest struggle?

Via: I'm lazy. Oh, I'm so lazy and I have a lot of vices.

Kim: Are we related?

Via: We could be! We could be. I mean, I am lazy. I got vices. I really like TV. TV's gotten so good. Oh man. And then there's just, I live near a lot of restaurants.

Kim: I was going to say, mine is fast food.

Via: Yep. Yes. I live in South Park, Seattle, which is just covered in delicious food. And I'm like, why did I get a house two blocks from like best burger joint in the city? Because now they know my name. Now they know my order by name. Oh, that's so sad. I walk past it and they wave like, are you ready?

Kim: I approve of that.

Via: I mean, I admit I'm, I'm, I have a lot of vices. I love wine. I love to watch TV so much. Project runway, drink the wine, eat the steak. And then I look up and I go, yeah, I probably should have completed that ritual. There is definitely some sort of full moon today. Oh, well, there's always next month. Yeah. 

Kim: Oh my gosh, yes, that. Absolutely. 

Via: So I’d say that. I'm real lazy, and then on the other hand, I spend the first eight hours of my day working again in a high-stress finance sector job in higher ed, so if I'm not crunching budgets and allocations, then I'm, you know, drinking the wine and eating the food and watching the project runway, and then somewhere in between that I squeeze witchcraft in but I like to think all of it's witchcraft.

Kim: Food is very magical and math is definitely some kind of fucking witchcraft.

Via: That's, I think that's the highest level of occultism I have achieved. I have read the Ars Goetia. I have read some fascinating literature. I have read the Greek magical papyri. I'm telling you it is nothing like reading allocation models for higher education. Sucks.

Kim: Do you feel like you have any self-doubt or imposter syndrome about your practice?

Via: No, I have no imposter syndrome about my practice. I definitely feel imposter syndrome now that I've become an author. I am extremely uncomfortable with attention, which is probably why I grew up not having a lot of birthdays. It's just, I do not, I don't enjoy direct attention very much and it scares me. So I didn't think I realized how much it would scare me until I wrote a book and had to absorb all the negativity and positivity all around me. And I started to realize it didn't matter if people were saying good or bad things. I kept feeling bad about everything I wrote, every single thing I write, I second guess. And then it just completely goes away because that's an anxiety disorder. You gotta talk yourself through that sometimes, and it sucks, and I'm not my best advocate, but I have such an incredible system of people around me, supportive friends, kind people, just really kind, generous people, even a few coworkers I have who actually know about me as Via, they are so overwhelmingly on my side. My parents are super supportive. My whole family loves that. I actually talked about our weird little family in my book. I get so much love and support that I have to learn to internalize that above the ego inside me that's telling me that I'm the main character, nobody likes me, and no one's going to read my book. I have to actively remind myself that I am a person, life is short, you are loved. That's all it comes down to.

Kim: So it sounds like you're saying you ask your community for help.

Via: Yeah.

Kim: That's awesome.

Via: Even, you know, I don't even ask. People offer support, and I love that. I love that we live in a world so kind and gentle sometimes that the people will look around them and really give of themselves and give of their emotions and be open-minded and kind. So to have the community reach out to me, to have people reach out to me and say, hey, I believe in you. Have you ever thought of pushing forward with this? Just that kind of love just reminds me of everything powerful about magic, which is connection. 

Kim: I love us! Yay!

Via: What would you say brings you the most joy in your practice?

Via: Getting my way.

Kim: Yeah! 

Via: I mean, getting my way. That's what I enjoy. You know what part I like? The part where I got mine. That's me and I loved it. 

Kim: (laughs) I like you so much.

Via: I'm glad. (laughs)

Kim: I like frankness.

Via: I try to be. I prefer direct and simple.

Kim: Me too, because everything else is confusing and I can't deal with it. 

Via: Yeah, I'm not really good at hints. 

Kim: Don't do that. Just tell me because I will miss that. 

Via: On purpose just to be difficult.

Kim: What is something you did early on in your practice that you don't do anymore and why don't you?

Via: Hmm. I’m gonna get real honest. I used to hold a lot of resentment against people who would use phrases like dark and light magic, good or bad witch, I was very critical of people who perceive, who I perceived as too fluffy for witchcraft. I held a lot of resentment against people coming out of the woodwork making claims about witchcraft being inherently like, oh this is an inherently nature-based peace-loving spirituality, when that's not the definition of witchcraft around the world. That's not even the definition of witchcraft on an anthropological sense or by historical standards or most cultural standards. So growing up and hearing people sort of whitewash witchcraft and sort of neuter it and sterilize it down to unicorns and crystals kind of used to really bother me coming up, because I felt like it was taking away from everything that I grew up with, which was witchcraft having grit, having blood, having spit, having twine, having angry thoughts and loving words and long looks. And it was sort of changing magic and witchcraft itself into something that would be palatable and suitable for western Christian religions, or for western organized religious mindsets, and I feel very strange about people neutering witchcraft into something that can be palatable to the standards of people that we should not be trying to impress in the first place. We should not be trying to impress their god. We should not be trying to impress people who believe in ultimate judgment in the afterlife. We shouldn't be catering around our magic and our practice and our ability to source from different places and different energies in this world, we shouldn't have to cap that so that other people in the world feel less threatened by who we are. Witchcraft exists as rebellion, it exists as a reaction, it exists to free people, even as much as it can chain people. It's amazing, it's a force, it's neither good or evil, it's not dark and or light. It's all of it. It's just this beautiful, bright, incredibly dark, horrifically ugly, just surreal, beautiful thing that we're all sharing in. So it always really bothered me early on in my practice to be around people who would neuter witchcraft or talk about it as if it was just white light and fluffy bunnies and gumdrops. But recently I started to realize that the whole reason why that backlash happened in the 90s and the early 2000s was because it had to. It was a reaction to their parents, to their churches, to the media, to the media that portrays witches in such a completely negative light for hundreds of years. It was a reaction that had to happen and had to open conversations. And I grew to really understand and appreciate people who took a very gentle, kind, what I would have called fluffy view of witchcraft because it taught me not only to shut my mouth up and tolerate other people, but also understand that they're trying to represent the spectrum of witchcraft that is glowing and bright and sparkly. And it's still real. It's very different from mine, but I understand what they're pushing for. I understand why people have reactions. And I think that's just, I didn't realize how much of a witchcraft moment that was. It was a reaction, and that's what witchcraft is. It's reacting to things. And I grew to really appreciate that. So I would say the first thing I did in my practice that I no longer do is be kind of an asshole to people I perceived as diminishing what I do. And now I've learned how to just kind of love and appreciate every everything I see in witchcraft, because it's got some sort of truth in there and I can appreciate that for anybody.

Kim: That reminds me of a conversation I had with my husband recently.

Via: Yeah? Tell me about it.

Kim: I make jewelry and I was… I've been looking around local shops to see where it would fit. And they are so beautiful, and well lit, and like minimalist, and they're gorgeous. And they have nice incense and it's bright and white and my stuff is gritty and dirty and… I just need to find a dirtier shop. Yeah, I mean, it's not exactly what you were talking about, but that's what it reminded me of. 

Via: I mean legit…

Kim: I need a dirtier shop to sell my stuff. 

Via: Yeah, there were shops I would avoid because I was like, well, where's the, okay, but where's the skulls, man?

Kim:  Like, yeah, yeah, where’re all the bones?

Via:  I love the patchouli. But you know, where's the where's the eye of new? Come on, where's my eye of new? You got got wing of bat? You know wing of bat? Uh…

Kim: Where are the spider webs? 

Via: Right, where are the- thank you. Where's the fine thick layer of dust on every single apothecary jar? Yes. Yeah, so I think that's that's something I'm really glad I learned to get past was to to just accept that my witchcraft and all of witchcraft are not the same thing. That's the whole point. It could be anything. I don't know. I don't have the answers. I like that. That's a good change for a person to make.

Kim: I agree. I'm trying to be less of an asshole. I'm much less asshole. Well, maybe it's just in different ways than 25 years ago.

Via: Yeah, it seems to me…

Kim: I'm still probably an asshole.

Via: Yeah, I'm definitely still an asshole. It's just I've redirected it somewhere else. I'm not sure where. I'm sure I'll find out.

Kim: To the right. To the right. 

Via: Early towards the right.

Kim: What would you say, do you have a favorite tool even if it's not something like a physical object? 

Via: Definitely my favorite tool at this time is my red wool yarn and thread magic knotwork. It has always been a huge part of my practice, but recently I've begun spinning my own red wool for knotworking and I love it. I use a drop spindle and it's just so great. It's been 20, 28 years since I did my own spinning, so spinning my own wool into red thread has been just, it's an amazing tool and it's been a lot of the work I've been using recently. 

Kim: I love when we're able to create the, like the materials to do what we do, to that extent. 

Via: Yes, I love it. It gives me such a sense of peace and power and control, which if the listeners haven't figured out I'm really into those, but I really I love it. The, the connection it gives me to the fates and to fate itself and To just putting myself into my own body You know really focusing on what my fingers can do on twirling the spindle and pulling the thread It's just it there's such a ritual to it. There's so much magic to it It's been the most powerful tool in my arsenal for at least the last year or so.

Kim:  It sounds really meditative

Via: Very. So peaceful.

Kim:  I am hacking out. This is again tangential. I'm hacking out a path. I live in Arizona and I'm hacking out a path in my, in our yard so I can walk. And it feels I feel like it's probably a similar feeling.

Via:  Yeah, yeah, it's like a focus. But isn't it that that steady success as you see how far you've come that just satisfying? 

Kim: Yes.

Via:  Yeah, that is perfect.

Kim: Can you pick out one decision you've made that changed the direction of your life? And if so, can you tell us what it is?

Via: Boundaries, people, boundaries. I made the decision to start putting up very strict boundaries in how I allow myself to be treated by others. And I think that is one of the hardest magical rituals to figure out and achieve is how to reshape yourself into something stronger. That is so difficult. You wait for time and pressure to make you into that, but sometimes it takes just the most painful amount of effort and energy on your part. It takes daily methodical rituals to figure out how to not get bullied. And I did not grow up knowing how to assert boundaries. I was the middle child and a caretaker. So my job was to get told what to do and eat when I get told to eat and speak when spoken to. So when I finally grew up, I always told myself, when I grow 

up, I'm going to get money and I'm going to abandon everyone who ever pissed me off. And I did it successfully. I was really happy about that. And I think that's kind of shocks people when they hear someone say it in a completely casual, non-regretful tone, that they're like, oh yeah, I cut off a parent and was like, bye bro. 

Kim: More people need to do it. 

Via: Yeah. I'm not into living a toxic life and I don't understand the necessity for keeping abusive relationships that aren't going to, there's nothing I can do with this. There's relationships I've been in with people where I can tell that this is toxic and manipulative and we're gonna need to go get therapy and get help and get some some way to like actually figure out how to get healthy and then there are people who just like to hurt other people because they think it's funny and Unfortunately, I grew up around a lot of adults who did think it was very funny to be very harmful to children, simply because it was what's a kid gonna do? And I told myself, you know, and I get old enough I'm gonna tell off every single adult who ever pissed me off and I'm gonna tell them just how much of an asshole they are, right when I when I'm, when I'm articulate enough. Because that eight you're not that articulate But it's funny, you know 20, you know, you get to adulthood and you perform the ultimate banishing ritual on these toxic spirits in your life and you're just you look at someone you go I don't hate you but I can't save you and I don't want to you're on your own and you put up that boundary and the more you put them up it's like putting up wards or putting up a magic circle you keep this energy out of your life and I think that was the most wonderful decision I ever made was learning how to be the person who puts and says, no, fuck you, I'm in charge. My way or the highway. I'll be treated precisely in the manner that I expect, or you won't be speaking to me at all. I have that power, I have that authority, and nothing will strip me of it. Once you get to that part of being a magical practitioner where you are just really unafraid of other people, other living spirits, where you're like, come at me, bro, that is a direction your life, that is a wonderful direction for your life to take. And it's upwards from there.

Kim: Here's something interesting that is happening. I know the recording's okay because it records locally to you and then it uploads. But you're really choppy when I'm listening, but that stuff that you just said, perfectly clear. 

Via: I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. 

Kim: No, no! It's just neat that that stuff? Clear as a bell.

Via: Yeah. Yeah. For anyone who's listening out there, for all your listeners, if you were ever, if you were ever made to feel very, very small when you were a child consistently by the same people who are supposed to make you feel big or make you feel like you are somebody, you don't have to keep that person. If that if they refused to jump on board the bandwagon of loving you, that banishment ritual will be the most powerful thing you do with your life. Your boundaries are your power. It is a spell. It is a staff. It is a wand. It is a spear. Take your boundaries, put them up and don't ever spend your adulthood letting people, those same people, make you feel like you're trapped in your eight-year-old body again. They have no power here. 

Kim: See, this is what's gonna make me cry. 

Via: You're not small people out there. You're grown-ups and you can stand up for yourself. You put up those boundaries. 

Kim: I'm an adult!

Via:  You're an adult and you don't take guff from nobody. 

Kim: Hell yes! I mean, or no! or whatever the appropriate response is. 

Via: DamnSkippy. That's my message to y'all. Boundaries. 

Kim: That's gonna be an amazing audio clip. (both laugh) Can’t wait.  Well, now I'm even more interested to hear the answer to this question. How do you pull yourself out of a magical slump? 

Via: You can do that? Oh, shit! Oh, damn! I was going to ask you!

Kim: I just suffer until it's done.

Via: Pretty much! I mean, how do I pull myself out of the slump? Honestly, I love being inspired by other people. I have one of those thresholds where I don't feel a lot of jealousy or envy as much as I really, really, really want other people to do something amazing. So I'll usually get on Instagram or Facebook and I'll look at what everyone else is doing and I will feel so much happiness like I'll see all their updates and they'll post their kids and their cats and the stuff they're canning and I'll be like man I'm just so freaking happy that your life is okay and it reminds me that life is okay and life's going on and when I feel like I'm in a slump or a spiral or this really low period watching all these people show that life goes on and that there are, that there's, that people source happiness in this world. And just feeling happy for them, it pulls me out. I think that's the best advice I can give to someone about pulling yourself out of the slump, is start having gratitude for what other people have and the happiness they have in their lives, and you will find so much willpower to like join them and to find some happy place to be. 

Kim: That's so good! 

Via: Be happy for other people folks! We need it. 

Kim: That's such a neat way to look at it, because I was thinking community as well, but I was like, tell me how good I am you guys, because I feel like I suck. And they do, but being thankful for their shit did not occur to me. That's awesome. I'm going to borrow that. 

Via: Please do. 

Kim: What is something you wish was discussed more in the witch community?

Via:  The need we have for more philanthropy in the name of our gods and our spirits. I want to see more fundraisers and events dedicated to generating money for the welfare of causes closest to our communities and our beliefs, our deities and what they represent in my case Over the next year to I've been drafting out a plan with some local practitioners and I'd like to work more towards the effort For I mean, I suppose efforts for children children's health care children's safety in honor of equity And I really wish I could drum up more support in that in local practitioners It's something I really wish I saw more in the community is us. I want us to put some more efforts into raising more charity and awareness in the name of what we represent and what we're interested in. There's a lot of religious charities out there, very few of them representing some of the deities a lot of witches work with, or representing our spiritual values. And I would really like to see more of that get discussed in the witch community is how we can be more of service to our communities and to the people most in the world who could still use help. I mean, if we're witches and we have all this power and our whole point is trying to figure out and wield these fascinating powers, wouldn't it be, what incredible thing would we do if we wielded all that power to do something good and protective? What incredible ritual or spell would that be? I'm just curious I suppose. 

Kim: That does not even occur to me. So I'm glad you said it. 

Via: What do you mean? 

Kim: It's the beginning of the year and now maybe I can find something like that to do. I actually thought of something as you were talking. I'm doing it. 

Via: Do it! I'm in! You tell me about it!  I mean, I'm really far away. Seattle, Arizona is a four or five hour flight But I'm I am interested in any support I can give.

Kim: That's cool. I can't think about that right now because I'm doing an interview, but note to self. When I edit this it'll remind me. Imagine these three biggest influences on your practice whether it is a philosophy or a book or a person. Thank them for however they influenced your practice and your life.

Via: Number one, shout out to Corey Hutchison of New World Witchery.

Kim: (excitedly) Yeah!

Via: He's the leader of our ragtag generation of folk magic revivalists, researchers, rebels. He has given so many witches like me our first shine in the light to be seen by others, was one of the first people to open doorways for us and to share regional magical identities. He is a fascinating, fascinating, intelligent person and I have, there's no amount of thank yous I know in a amount of languages, but thank you a whole lot to Corey for just being the person who led this incredible charge and brought all of us with him. Second would be a shout-out to French author and historian Jules Michelet for his work Satanism and Witchcraft, also known as The Sorceress, also known as La Sorciere. It's a pivotal book in the study of witchcraft, simply because of its poetry, because of its fascinating prose of this idea around what makes a witch. His idea of this witch being spawned from a scorned and abused woman and rising to this power and this tragic story has been told and retold in different kinds of ways and it's always been so profoundly moving to me. So I'd say shout out to the moles. The moles. Moles get no credit for being very cool magical allies with a fair amount of witchy folklore surrounding them. And I know a lot of people think they're pests, but to me they're just worm little little worm-eating sweeties with magic paws and they never get their due. Everybody over here talking shit about 

the mole, but nobody's talking about how cool the mole is and I'm saying shout out to the mole. 

Kim: Little velvet creatures? 

Via: Yes, little they're sweeties. I don't mind them. 

Kim: He was the little sweetest one of um Wind in the Willows. 

Via: Thank you. Little moley. Moles the best. No one, no one, everybody says oh black cats or wolves or bunnies which I respect. 

Kim: Owls. 

Via: Owls, yes. It's always, it's gonna be. I mean I like them. I like them, but... moles have a lot of magic, too! They're fascinating, they're interesting little magicians, and I just want to give a shout-out to the little dude.

Kim: This is... one of the most entertaining ones so far, because... never in a million years would I have expected that.

Via: Mole power!

Kim: (laughs) Another t-shirt. Oh my gosh, that is amazing. Do you have any advice for anybody just starting out in their practice?

Via: Yes. Think for yourself. It's really hard to be an individual with a world that like pressures you to conform to one group or another. And there are so many incredible things out there. This world is full of art and images and color and shape. And you have a world in which you can carve a niche for yourself with your own identity, being who exactly who you are. Just think for yourself. And it'll probably be the hardest and most rewarding part of your journey as someone starting out in witchcraft is trying to figure out who you are and what actually works for you. You're going to be told a million times over what you can and can't do, what the rules are, what the rules aren't. You're walking into this delicious stew of every possibility. Think for yourself and hold on to your personality and never let someone tell you, even somebody like me, don't let us tell you what it has to be or what it doesn't have to be. Just be yourself and it's going to be the hardest and most magical thing you do. 

Kim: Also, you don't have to pick a label when everybody says, what are you? Are you a green witch? Maybe. 

Via: No, don't pick a label. If someone tells you to pick a label, stick your middle finger up! Come up with your own label. Do you never, never feel like you've got to conform. That's the worst. That's the worst feeling in the world is taking up a mask and living under that mask and waking up one day and realizing you wasted years trying to fit into a mold. That'll never work for people who probably wouldn't have done it for you. Be your word, think for yourself, be your biggest hero because no one will advocate for you better than you. 

Kim: So you see how these questions go,  and you've answered them and they're delightful, your answers are. Who do you think would be interesting to have on the show and answer these questions?

Via:  Rebecca Bayer of Blood and Spicebush. 

Kim: Such a good name!

Via:  (laughs) She is so cool. She's amazing. I love everything she does, and she's pretty and she's nice and her book Wild Witchcraft is such a pleasure to read. I would be fascinated to hear an interview here with you. I would love to hear her answer these questions. Rebecca is a wonderful human being. 

Kim: Added to the list.

Via: Shout out Spicebush, I love you!

Kim: Is there anything else you want to bring up or is there any, did you have any questions for me?

Via: (laughs) Shameless promotion. Well, folks, you know, keep your eye on me on Instagram because me and my illustrator have begun the process of producing merchandise like enamels and totes based on the art featured on my Instagram and on my website. And also keep out because I have two essays featured in the Llewellyn Almanac and the Llewellyn Calendar for 2024 about black fairy spirits and rabbit witches respectively. I will also be hosting another Arboretum Walk for local witches here in Seattle scheduled for March. So if you're based in or around the Puget Sound region, or you can get here in time, if you guys want to drive up from Olympia or down from Blaine, shoot me a DM or an Insta, and I can share more about the event. It's a seasonal event. I take practitioners through the Seattle Chinese Garden and the attached arboretum at South Seattle College, and I give a tour of the grounds. I've been affiliated with the grounds for almost 20 years, so it's a really fun walk. We all have a lot of fun and we get to rent a classroom and sit down and talk for a little while. And the last one was a great success. So please hug D and me if you're interested. 

Kim: Ruth, she's talking to you.

Via: Talking to you, Ruth. RUTH!

Kim: That sounds freaking badass. 

Via: It's really fun. We had a great time. 

Kim: So the last two things that I ask of my guests, thing number one is, please recommend something to the listeners. It does not have to be witchy at all, unless you want it to be just anything.

Via:  Hmm, recommend. Ooh, you got me, you caught me because this wasn't on the question list. 

Kim: That's the whole point. It's a secret!

Via: I love it. Okay. Ah, recommend, recommend. Honestly, folks, if the Astra Lumina, Astra Lumina light exhibit comes to a town near you, I strongly urge you to go. It just came to Seattle to the Chinese Garden. It's a night walk through an art installation of lights. And that's an oversimplification in the worst degree. It is very glib. It is fascinating. It is stunning. I walked through a field of glowing flowers. There was a galaxy projected into the forest around us. There's hundreds of us there. It was fascinating. There was moons, like a hundred glowing, different colored moons all through this walkway. And I can't really describe the grounds. It's huge. The Seattle Chinese Garden is a really large ground. So the walk was an hour and you could stop at each installation. It was beyond amazing, the sound quality, the food there. They had a beer garden. They had a disco ball that was like, I don't know, like 10 feet tall that spoke to me. It was incredible, folks. If you can get out and see Astralumina, I know it's touring the country. If you're in Washington, it's in Seattle Chinese Garden. But if I could recommend anything, it's definitely a life changing magical experience.

Kim: I love all these traveling art installations that I didn't know about until like the past five years.

Via: Me neither. Thank you, Instagram.

Kim: I'm thinking YouTube, but yes.

Via: Yes, see Astralumina if you can. It's something different.

Kim: The last thing is, please tell me a story.

Via: Now your question said, a favorite memory or funniest thing I've ever seen or experienced. Can it be a funny story? 

Kim: It can be whatever you want. I just like stories. 

Via: Okay. Just because people are like, tell you a story, I don't know what to say, tell you. Oh, I got a story. My go-to story. So my favorite memory was this time I went to see a relative perform at the Tacoma Dome. And this was a few years ago. I was about 29. And it was the I Love the 90s tour, which featured acts like Salt-N-Pepa and Tone Loke and Young MC and Coolio. So I went to go see a relative perform on the same tour. And I get on the same tour van. We were at a, you know, we're eating at a restaurant, we get on the same tour van and Coolio's on that van. And I'm like, oh shit, my god, it's fucking Coolio. Like, that's crazy. And my mom's like, oh, calm down. You met him when you were three. And I'm like, okay, okay. I'm not going to say anything. I want to say something so bad. I'm like, oh my god, it's Coolio! And you know, my relative is like, please stop. And so right before we're supposed to get to the dome, we're in the middle of the parking lot over at the Tacoma Commons, which is like this mall area with a lot of restaurants. And the tour bus just stops, and Coolio just gets off the tour bus, and he's followed by this extremely frantic-looking lady. She's like vigorously following him and talking to him and getting on a phone, and we're all sitting there just stunned. And we're like, did Coolio just, did this dude just walk off the tour van, through a parking lot, into a mall and it occurs to us, he gets off the van to buy sunglasses. We're late to the show already at the Tacoma Dome. The show is late, the rest of the act is on this bus and I'm sitting there looking at my mom like did Coolio for real just get off of this tour bus to get sunglasses from the Tacoma Mall? Are we really going to be late? Because Coolio wanted sunglasses in the middle of, I mean, it's not even that hot or sunny here at the time. So that I was like, that is the most gangster, man. All right, keep me. He said, nah, stop the bus. I don't care where any of y'all got to be. I'm getting these glasses. Oh yeah. So that was probably one of my favorite memories, is just that day of meeting all these really fun people or seeing them again after so many years, and then that being the only experience I have with this person I always really wanted to meet and say hi to, was him walking right past me, to go get some sunglasses.

Kim: That is cool.

Via: Oh yeah, that was cool. It was so weird. And they looked great. They were very good glasses. He did wear them during the show. 

Kim: Oh, good. (both laugh)

Via: He seemed happy, so. RIP, Coolio.

Kim: Thank you so much for being on the show. And thank you for the story.

Via: Absolutely. It was an absolute pleasure. You are so fun.

Kim: I only did... I didn't even do anything. I was enjoying you. (laughs)

Via: Hey, you have the energy, I'm feeding off of it.

Kim:  Oh, yay. Well, thanks for that.

Via: Yeah, I'm vamping you right now.

Kim:  And everybody go follow Via everywhere immediately. I'm ordering you.

Via: Follow me everywhere but home.

Kim: Ew. Don’t ever do that.

Via: Yeah, let's not. 

Kim: Okay, the end, bye! Via.

Via: Hello.

Kim: Welcome to Hive House.

Via: Hey, I'm happy to be here.

Kim: I'm happy to have you, and I know everybody else is. What is your favorite quote?

Via: Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things. George Carlin.

Kim: Oh. 

Via: Yeah. 

Kim: Okay, I’m gonna pull a card… (fades out)

Via: (fades in) Picard, Neville Longbottom, and the Xenomorph Queen. We grab weed, wine, a lighter, a shiv, and enough dynamite to level a mountain.

Kim: Uhhhh, that’s… okay. (laughs)

Via:  Yeah, that’s it. Me, Picard, Neville Longbottom, Xenomorph Queen, high as hell, drunk as hell, lighter, shiv, dynamite, boom. (fades out)

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