Interview with Mortellus. Life, death, and maybe some teeth

 In this episode I'm talking to Mortellus, who, I have to say, was a super fun and interesting guest. I like them a lot. We talked about death, spirits, and why you might ask people for their teeth.
I also announce the winner of the Halloween giveaway that I did with 2 Crones Cafe. The winner of the Witchstones Oracle deck is Andrea of Appalachia! If that sounds familiar, it's because Andrea was a guest way back in season one. Thanks everyone for playing along, and Andrea, I hope you like your new deck!

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Transcript

Welcome back to Your Average Witch, where every Tuesday we talk about witch life, witch stories, and sometimes a little witchcraft. In this episode I'm talking to Mortellus, who I have to say was a super fun and interesting guest. I like them a lot. We talked about death, spirits, and why you might ask people for their teeth. Before we get started, I'm going to announce the winner of the Halloween giveaway that I did with 2 Crones Cafe. The winner of the Witchstones Oracle deck is Andrea of Appalachia. If that sounds familiar, it's because Andrea was a guest way back in Season 1. Thanks everyone for playing along, and Andrea, I hope you like your new deck. I'm also giving away a second deck soon in the Hive House Facebook group, so if you want a deck for yourself, come join us at Facebook.com/group/HiveHouse. Now let's get to the stories!

Kim: So Mortellus, welcome to the show.

Mortellus: Hi, thank you for having me.

Kim: Thank you for being here! Would you please introduce yourself and let everybody know who you are and what you do and where they can find you?

Mortellus: I feel like your listeners would have learned more about me if we just gave them all the stuff before we started recording. (Kim laughs) Where they had to listen to me complain about printers and like, like chewing on a churro while I did it.

Kim: Snacks, snacks, always snacks.

Mortellus: Hi, I'm Mortellus. If you go to mortellus.com you'll find me and stuff I make, and if you do the linktree thing it's just /acrowandthedead. You can search either of those things basically anywhere and you'll find me. I enjoy churros, tea, which I'm drinking. (both laugh) I'm a complete dork so I'm bad at this actually. I tell people that all the time and they don't believe me. (laughs) I live in the mountains of Western North Carolina, technically Appalachia, with my twin five-year-old kiddos. They were born on my birthday. I was born on-

Kim: Whoa!

Mortellus: Yeah, Beltane babes. I also have a 21-year-old kiddo, which most people don't realize, who is off studying to be a labor and delivery nurse, and my partner. And we live on like three acres of poorly taken care of dirt where we just let weeds grow, because who cares about being a grass farmer? So hopefully that was a good introduction. I know you like doing who people actually are, rather than all the other stuff.

Kim: Yeah, I like dirt farming. That's what I'm doing right now! (laughs)

Mortellus: Right? It's so weird that people grow grass. Like, I don't even get that. It all derives from like...

Kim: Rich people, rich white people.

Mortellus: Yeah, rich people classism where it's like, look, I'm so wealthy I don't even have to use my land for food. I just grow this stupid grass no one cares about and has no value.

Kim: Bleh.

Mortellus: I don't need to cosplay rich people by mowing. (Kim shrieklaughs) I know. It's terrible.

Kim: What does it mean to you when you call yourself a witch?

Mortellus: Oh my god. (laughs) Um...

Kim: That's my favorite response so far. (laughs)

Mortellus: Let's go over the long story. I say as I do the ADHD thing where I launch into an unskippable cutscene, which is definitely the long story. I grew up with fundie evangelical Christians who were in an actual cult. It's super scary, terrible, horrible stuff that I don't want to talk about today because you know... some days you just can't mental health your way through that even if you've talked about it a thousand times. And being the weirdo kid that didn't fit in, I was, basically everybody around me all the time was like, that one's a witch. We gotta pray that out of them. So I was called a witch a lot before I called myself a witch. And I think, I think that's really sort of structurally different for me than I think maybe other people that use the word. Because for me, it was embracing something that the people I grew up with found ugly and wrong, because to me everything that I was, was ugly and wrong. Even if that thing was just as simple as being assigned female at birth. So it's kind of reclaiming all the things that they found worthless and ugly in one word, I guess.

Kim: I just had a mental picture of you putting on armor.  (Mortellus laughs) Made of that stuff.

Mortellus: That would not be off base. If you look at my social media, I actually own armor. I'm kind of a Renfaire dork, sorry. 

Kim: Ooooo that's COOL!

Mortellus:  One of my coveners, oh my god, they have no idea what to do with me ever. But one of my coveners used to be a competitive pole dancer and they had signed up for this awesome boudoir shoot with this amazing photographer named Candra Cain and they couldn't go and they were like, guess what? I'm gifting you this and I was like, oh no, I don't know how to be that. (both laugh)

Kim: Relate. (both laugh)

Mortellus: They talked me into it, and it's like, what does my Enby ass do at a boudoir shoot? I don't even know what that looks like. So I showed up with like human bones and Renfair armor and they were like, you know, this is mostly just like a naked thing, right? It's like, I don't want to, I want to armor and bones at it. So we did.

Kim: I would have shown up in Star Trek uniform.

Mortellus: Yes.

Kim: So I get it.

Mortellus: I feel like that's the neurodivergent/like, I never fit in/envy experience, right? You just show up with all the wrong accessories for literally anything you're doing, ever.

Kim: That is very descriptive of myself. (both laugh)

Mortellus: Right? (laughing) So, fancy boudoir shoot? I brought armor. (both laugh) I brought plate mail to this, and a sword. (laughing) Oh my gosh.

Kim: Can you introduce us to your practice? Do you have any consistent rituals you'll share? Or any whatever, if you don't want to call it a ritual? Sorry, I keep interrupting! I'm sorry.

Mortellus: I'm also interrupting. We should make hear this just like it is, because this is reality. (Kim laughs) Everyone, most podcasts are edited carefully for your listening pleasure. (laughs) I think anybody that says they have a consistent practice is full of actual shit, probably. (both laugh) Right, like that's the... I'm, you know, I'm putting on a performance because I'm a fancy big name pagan type person and I have to be doing things correctly. But I've got kids and a dog and shit, like I have to live. So I think real practice is having a relationship with your magic and your deities that isn't performative. Just having that relationship that says, I'm going to be what I have to be today, and that's going to be alright. So probably the most consistent practice I have is making a cup of tea every day. And I think, frankly, as someone with ADHD operating before I've taken my day's medication, I'm doing pretty good on that front. But just taking that time to turn on the kettle, and let it boil, and put all the things in the cup, and pour the water, and wait the five minutes for it to steep, like making that really intentional time to focus and do something akin to meditation, I guess. I mean, I'm sort of standing there staring out at my weed farm, I guess, (both laugh) out the window, but just sort of thinking about what I need my day to be and how that relates to the gods I work with. I think that is my most consistent ritual practice. And fight me if you're listening and you don't think that's a ritual, you know? I'm doing it and it's a series of actions in a row, so witchcraft I think. But other practices, and if you want to get on the more esoteric side I'm I'm a Gardenerian Wiccan, but one of the like really queer ones, which is actually most of us. So um whatever you thought of, we probably like gayed up really hard. We did pretty structured ritual, which is fun because it's like being a reverse Catholic and Catholics are just reverse pagans. I think these are different outfits and stuff. So that I'm doing that pretty regularly and celebrating wheel of the year and that kind of stuff. And other practices include my death work and sort of relating to the Morrigan and Anubis, which are personal deities I work with through that work. Whether it be volunteering for hospice, or literal funerary work like embalming, that kind of thing. I mean all those things are really specific ritualized pieces of work. So to me that's a huge part of my magic.

Kim: All that stuff is terrifying to me. 

Mortellus: I'm curious why. We'll turn the interview around back to you. 

Kim: Uhhh... I have OCD and one of my issues is death. And humans as a whole. 

Mortellus: Gotcha. I don't know. I hope your listeners will hang in there with me. I don't want anyone to think that I'm objectifying or making literal objects of the dead, but working with physical deceased human remains is really, really different from interacting with people. Particularly when it's your job and you're just kind of trained to understand that space, it's one of those things where you can really focus on the details and not so much the actual big obvious thing, which is a dead human being. (laughs softly) Whereas I spend a lot of personal time sort of talking to the deceased in front of me or playing music for them, that kind of stuff. It's different, I guess.

Kim: Oh, that almost made me cry. Thinking of being dead and somebody played me a song, that's so nice. (cry laughs)

Mortellus: One of my favorite things to do, if I'm in the prep room. If I have a case in front of me, I'll look at their their age and if if they're old enough for it, I mean sometimes there are certainly children, but what I do is try and see what music was popular in the years that they would have been 16 and 17 because for whatever reason, humans just really cling to those moments in their life, right? And whatever that music is, that's what I'll play in the prep room while I work.

Kim: Do you know, I did that with my patients.

Mortellus: Oh, fun!

Kim: I used to work, I used to, I mean, I guess technically I still am an occupational therapist. I'm just not certified. But- I mean, not a, an assistant, occupational therapy assistant. But yeah, because I worked mainly with the geriatric crowd and sometimes they think differently than we do and that helped center them to what we were doing. That's cool.

Mortellus: Yeah. I think too that the same is true with the dead, where you're just sort of connecting with them in a way that's just really personal and human. I don't know, I have this playlist on my phone and it's one song from like each person that I've worked with over my career, and like I play it and I remember every single person that it was.

Kim: Oh, that's gonna make me cry again!

Mortellus:  You know the little stuff that sort of ritualizes the work and I think I think that's probably a difference between me and a lot of folks. And I know that that's a privilege that I have that the work I do is something that is magic and is ritual. I mean some of us just gotta go do our terrible part-time jobs or whatever and then do the witchcraft. But my job is the magic that I'm doing a lot of the time.

Kim: That's lovely. I love that very much.

Mortellus: I didn't always have that opportunity. I mean, I've had my share of crummy jobs too, from waiting tables to retail. I worked for CVS pharmacy for five years, which is the worst. But yeah, we've all done that stuff, and I'm really happy to be at a point in my life where I've worked hard to make it so that magic can be in everything I'm doing. I don't know, I wish that for everybody, if it is something that's possible for them.

Kim: Me too. Would you say that witchcraft has changed your life?

Mortellus: That's a tough one, because I think that the simple answer is yes and the longer answer is no, but the even longer answer is still yes, I guess. (laughs) When I was five, I died. I talk about that in my first book and in other interviews and like I said, I can't get through it today, it's a bunch, but I was assaulted by a grown man when I was 5, bad stuff happened, and I attempted to take my own life. And I was coma for like four days. And at the end of it I flatlined, and they tried to resuscitate me for 20 minutes which was the standard at the time, and then they, you know, called time of death or whatever. And I woke up eight minutes later. And first of all we can all just have a conversation about how it's nuts that I didn't have brain damage. That's, we'll start there. But...

Kim: Yeah, purely from a science point, I'm like, ooh!

Mortellus: The longest that I'm aware of, just in terms of other general stats, is like 32 minutes, and that person was like a deep sea diver, just in terms of surviving without oxygen. But,  yeah, it's wild that that was the experience. And I remember being dead, and I remember all the things I experienced while I was dead. I have entire memories of it and it to me wasn't 28 minutes, to me it was like years. I have all of these sort of vast memories of being in the underworld, right? And while I was there I met what I still believe was a deity who gave me kind of some instructions for life which can be generally summarized in, hey, shit's still gonna suck a lot, but go back, this is what you gotta do. And yeah, so that changed my life. That put me on the path that led to where I am now. Is that witchcraft? Totally, sure. Is it not witchcraft? Also also totally. So it just depends on your perspective I guess.

Kim: (pauses) I, wow. Now I have to ask myself that. 

Mortellus: I'm curious. 

Kim: Well, my definition of witchcraft is something that you actually actively do, but that is something that I think happened to you. So I would call it magic. But for me, if it happened to me, I wouldn't call it witchcraft because I didn't actually do anything.

Mortellus: I will add context. There is some doing! So in my time being dead, I remember falling into the underworld. People talk about like tunnels and lights at the end of the tunnel. I fell through my ass.

Kim: Alice in Wonderland-ed?

Mortellus: Yeah, I that's a way I've never put it and it's great. Yeah, I fell downward forever, for what seemed like a really really long time and I landed somewhere soft and furry and so dark you could never imagine light existing. And I went to sleep. I slept forever. Lifetimes, eternities, a hundred years, ten minutes, I don't know. But I remember deciding that I couldn't just stay there and sleep. And I stood up, my little five-year-old self in the dark, and stepped off the soft furry place I had been sleeping, and I still remember that shock of cold that like reverberated through my body, like putting your foot on a cold basement floor. That was exactly what it felt like. It's this sense memory that just lives in me. And I, despite the fact that I literally could see nothing, I mean the kind of dark that is practically supernatural, you just can't replicate that kind of dark. And I still started walking in a direction. I walked, and I walked, and I walked, until I saw a light. And then I saw lots of lights, and one of them, I don't know how to describe this without sounding stupid, but one of them seemed important. So I went toward that one, and that's where I found the figure that I met. But because I chose to walk through the darkness, I do consider it an act of doing.

Kim: (pauses) I'm sorry, I'm processing.

Mortellus: Yeah, I get it, it's a lot.

Kim: Holy crap.

Mortellus: I usually, I feel like usually I'm probably more, you know, wisened and a better storyteller, but September is kind of dramaversary for me. And so it's just harder in September to really talk about it too much. But because, of course, the awful thing that led me to that moment, you know, still happened, and I still have to remember it forever. Everyone's having to hear that I've gotten a case of the hiccups. I'm sorry. (laughs)

Kim: Delightful. Welcome to everyone is a human being on this show. usually.

Mortellus: Yes.

Kim: What is, what would you say is the biggest motivator in your practice? And has it changed  since you first began practicing?

Mortellus: Can it be spite? 

Kim: It can be whatever you want. 

Mortellus: Spite isn't like a great reason to do anything, but it is a reason.

Kim: Whatever, if it gets it done. 

Mortellus: Right, like I get up every day with this feeling in my bones that's like fuck everybody, fuck everybody that tried to make me just not exist. 

Kim: Hell yeah, I fully approve of that. 

Mortellus: Right, by way of either nearly killing me off the planet, or by way of just trying to squash everything that made me a person.  And I get up every day just happy to keep going and doing the stuff I love, because the best punishment for someone cruel is to just be happy every day. Be successful and be you and do the things you love. 

Kim: I fully agree, because fuck off. (laughs)

Mortellus: Right. And if I'm being less quippy and, you know, bitey, I don't know why that's the mood today. But I guess another big motivation for me is, and let's all groan internally, my children. Real talk, I never wanted to be a parent. So there's major accidents in there. They know this. And it's also kind of like, there's a whole bunch of drama history that led up to me being a parent at all. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So it's not like I'm one of those Wiccans and fertility magic and babies, bleh, because all that's pretty gross and cishet nonsense. But they are little people that I'm super proud to be sharing my life with, and it is a big motivator for me to get up every day and give them something different than what I experienced. Kind of show them a different way to be and live and just appreciate them for who they are, and let them have all those little moments. Like I find that really healing, and it just pleases the shit out of me just to see them doing their weird thing. Like it's great. 

Kim: Yay! That makes me happy too!

Mortellus: They're the weirdest kids, seriously.

Kim: Good, that's the good kind. 

Mortellus: Who wouldn't be, right? I don't think you can live in a house with a necromancer and not just be a weird kid, probably. (laughs) All my kids have like tagged along to autopsies and stuff. 

Kim: Good, maybe they won't grow up this weird fear of humans like I have. 

Mortellus: Or maybe it will be worse. I don't know.

Kim: Either way.

Mortellus: We're all finding new, fresh, unique ways to mess up our kids.

Kim: Awesome.

Mortellus: We can come up with a personalized plan just for you! (both laugh)

Kim: Do you ever have impostor syndrome? 

Mortellus: Yes. Who doesn't.

Kim: I don't know. 

Mortellus: Who doesn't? Is it even a thing? 

Kim: I've had people say no.

Mortellus: Who are those people? Those people are-

Kim: Robots. I don't know.

Mortellus: I'm like low-key nervous of people who don't have that, like "You're too confident. What's your problem?" (laughs)

Kim: Yeah, I do sort of squint my eyes a little bit. (laughs)

Mortellus: There's this story I love. It's like Neil Gaiman on Tumblr where Neil Gaiman is their best self. Someone asked them about imposter syndrome and they tell this story about being at a party, and them and some other guy, incidentally named Neil, having a conversation. And Gaiman is like saying to the other guy, I don't even know why I'm here, because I just write stuff. And the other guy was like I don't know why I'm here either. All I did was take a walk. And the other, it was Neil Armstrong. And like those two having imposter syndrome at each other is like the funniest thing.

Kim: I love that story.

Mortellus: Right? It's great.

Kim: Because yeah, that is one of the things I think about.

Mortellus: Yeah, so of course, of course I have imposter syndrome. I get up every day and I wonder why anybody cares about what I have to say or do. Like I'm glad that they do, and I love sharing it, but I wonder why.

Kim: Oh my god, yes. Why is anyone listening to this podcast ever? Why do you subscribe to anything I do? I don't understand. Because I'm a dumbass. That is my general thought.

Mortellus: Everyone listening, I beg you, like go send love mail to like your favorite podcasters and authors and stuff. Even if you just like hit their contact button and like hey, you're cool and I like your things. Because...

Kim: That would be wonderful.

Mortellus: Assholes don't hesitate to send the long-winded hate mail emails. I should know, I get plenty of them.

Kim: Really? They can get fucked.

Mortellus: Yes, but nobody ever sends nice mail. I mean, I've gotten a couple but it's very rare. Like, I probably get 20 pieces of hate mail for every one nice email. So like, do that. Just go do that.

Kim: Okay, everybody, you have your assignment.

Mortellus: It'll help with their imposter syndrome. Just pick your favorite people and send them nice mail. Say hi. Tell them why you enjoy them.

Kim: Even if they're not famous. Tell your mom. Or your... whoever.

Mortellus: Exactly. Just pick someone and look. Can we make that a viral thing? Just send somebody a nice email.

Kim: Next time you're at McDonald's, say something nice about the person taking your money.

Mortellus: Right? and like don't pick me because I said it, or Kim because you just,  don't...

Kim: Yeah, don't, don't just cuz you heard it here... (laughs) Spread it.

Mortellus: Yeah. Just go pick some people and say a nice thing.

Kim: I'm gonna, I might start doing that on Facebook, Instagram, whatever the social things are.

Mortellus: Yeah, I mean it's such a small thing to do and it makes you feel better. It makes the other person feel better. It's nothing but good stuff, right? 

Kim: What's your biggest struggle when it comes to witchcraft? 

Mortellus: I think it's all the you-gottas. There are a lot of folks out there that will happily tell you all the stuff you have to do to be an effective witch. Like one of the big things on the list is meditation. And I have ADHD and rheumatoid. I cannot sit in one spot very long without my joints killing me, first of all, least of all having the patience for it. And it makes me feel like a failure when I can't do all the you gottas, whatever the you gottas are. So like, maybe just ignore that stuff.

Kim: I felt fancy because you said yes to me. So I'm like, how do you feel like, how do YOU feel like that? You're incredible. I'm afraid of you a little bit. (both laugh)

Mortellus: I feel that same way about podcasters. Every time someone emails, I'm like, to my partner, I'll just be like, oh my god, this person asked if I want to be on their show. Like, aww, why? (both laugh) So maybe everybody is doing this stuff, and it would be great to remember it and just be kinder to each other. (laughs)

Kim:  And ourselves. 

Mortellus: I think maybe the only person not doing it is Elon Musk who I'm not sure is human.

Kim:  Oh my god. I'm... it's gonna make my blood pressure go up.

Mortellus: I know.

Kim: Speaking of that fun conversation, what brings you the most joy in your practice? I'm the queen of segways. None of them make any sense. It's fine.

Mortellus: The most joy in my practice. So, people will write me emails about joining my coven. I do Gardnerian training, but also I do long distance training and sort of virtual online, which is very unusual for Gardnerians. So people reach out and they'll want to join because they read a book, or they saw me online, or they're gay and they couldn't find a coven that will take them or whatever. And it brings me joy to say yes, this can be your home. And it brings me joy every time they realize that instead of being very serious witchcraft, that mostly I make jokes about potatoes. (both laugh) It brings me joy when they realize that at the end of the day all I want them to know is that witches change the world, we just do it one person at a time. And that by giving them a place where they're welcome and can be at home and be themselves and become the best version of a witch they want to be, that they can go out and give that to someone else. And every time we do that, we make the world a little better. And that's, that's my joy.

Kim: That's delightful. Okay, yes, yes, please. I love it.

Mortellus: I also deeply love finding like weird old references in books where I can just like stare at them squinty. (both laugh)

Kim: Like wearing a dried toad around your neck?

Mortellus:  There's a line in an Elvis Levy book that says the soul of a necromancer is moist and turgid.

Kim: Hm-mmm, hm-mmm!

Mortellus:  The entire sentence first of all and it's apropos of nothing when he says it, and I think about it like ten times a day, like, what does that mean?

Kim: No, absolutely not. I can't.

Mortellus: What does it mean for me? I don't know. Or stuff like, this came to me in a dream. Or whatever. I love weird old stuff like that. It's the best.j

Kim: Oh no, that phrase is now echoing.

Mortellus: (laughs) I'm so sorry. 

Kim: We gotta talk about something else. (laughs)

Mortellus: (laughing) So sorry. Talk about Elon Musk. We'll forget all about it.

Kim:  Oh UGH!

Mortellus: Don't, though. (laughs)

Kim: Gross. (laughs)

Mortellus: (laughing) Gross.

Kim: What would you say is your biggest fear in witchcraft or in your practice?

Mortellus: I'm not afraid of magic. I'm not afraid of magic I'm doing. I'm not afraid of the dead. I'm not afraid I'm going to like use a Ouija board and my house is going to become irreparably haunted or something. Like, for fuck's sake, it must be terrible to work at a Ouija board factory, just demons messing your shit up all the time. (both laugh) Fuck off, I'm on my lunch break! (laughs)  So I'm not afraid of stuff like that at all. Because I don't have to carry around baggage from some old ass Catholics who wanted to make people afraid to be anything but a Catholic. I don't need that baggage. What I am afraid of is, I don't know, I guess my fears are more sort of esoteric. Like I'm afraid that I won't do all the things, and I'm afraid that I won't be my most authentic self all the time, because we get up every day and start all over being whatever human we're going to be that day, and I always hope I'm being the most myself all the time. And I'm afraid that people around me won't see what I'm doing and feel empowered to be their best self and I'm afraid that... (sighs) I'm gonna be in a Walmart and someone's gonna see a pentagram pendant and shoot me or something. I, I don't know. That stuff, I guess.

Kim: Secret about that question: I had no idea what I was asking when I asked it and it was just something to see what people would say. So it's always interesting to see how people interpret it.

Mortellus:  I saw a thread. It was like screenshots of someone's exchanges on a dating site with people. And what they did was just like swiped right on everybody, and every person that matched they asked them. What would you say if I asked you if I could have one of your teeth? and they...

Kim: Oh my god.

Mortellus: They posted screenshots of all the many varied things people said to them in response and you're right, like the way people interpret questions is so wild.

Kim:  I wanna see that, that sounds amazing!

Mortellus:  It's on my Facebook wall you're welcome to go find it. 

Kim: Sweet, awesome! I want to look at that. That sounds insane.

Mortellus:  It's pretty funny. One of my favorites was a guy who was like, I would be kind of curious, but I think when people ask for teeth like there's a there's a spot at either end where it gets a little weird but mostly it's okay. (laughs)

Kim: Wow.

Mortellus:  The one guy was like are you gonna make jewelry with it?

Kim: I mean I've done it. Not mine, not my teeth.

Mortellus: They've had a weird girlfriend at some point, right? (laughs)

Kim: Yes. What's something you did early in your practice that you don't do anymore and why don't you do it? 

Mortellus: Early in my practice, I was probably, I don't know, I could answer this a lot of ways. So the question is like, what flavor of bullshit would you like? 

Kim:: I love bullshit. 

Mortellus: Craft this answer to your audience, like option A, we'll do choose your own adventure. Option A, in the beginning I absolutely was not connected with any community whatsoever online, in person, whatever. I completely formed my practice in a bubble. And today, obviously, I'm a very public person who's connected with all kinds of communities all over the world. So that's a thing I don't do anymore. Thing two, I think in the beginning, as a hobby I really enjoy recreating like ridiculous high magic rituals, just insane shit like the original...

Kim: That's a fun hobby! (laughing)

Mortellus: ...because who's doing it? I did this one ritual from the Greek magical papyri and you have to shave your head for it and I did that a share of the time. And I don't do as much of that anymore because I'm running out of ones that don't involve like killing people or donkey semen.

Kim:  Oh, I don't... hmmm.

Mortellus: Surprisingly, a lot of those, a whole lot of donkey jizz in the Greek magical papyri.

Kim: That's specific. (laughs)

Mortellus: It is, right?

Mortellus: So I don't do much of that anymore, it has gotten so spent as a hobby. I did one time walk all 5200 something steps backwards to see if it really did me any good summoning the dead, but I could do it just fine without that. (both laugh) So Option 3. That stuff, I don't know, it depends on what you call the beginning, like in the beginning, are we talking about when I was a kid and sort of experimenting with the idea of what a witch was because people were calling me that? I spent a lot of actual time talking to trees at that point, which I never do, sadly.

Kim: Oh, I still do that. (laughs)

Mortellus: I haven't called in a while. But you know, we see each other on the weekends, whatever, we can work it out. Um, if we're talking about when I first ran away from home and was like, finding witchcraft books in the library, you could say,  I'm not doing a lot of that anymore. Like, actual library delving, because it's the same stuff in my small town. Are we talking about when I  diversed? I can't speak today, divorced my, first spouse and, really just got out of the closet hardcore, like, that was a time when I was doing a lot of, if I want to find a coven family I have to do the things exactly like they do them, and for me at the time that meant a lot of cosplaying cis heteronormative because that's how you fit in with Covens a lot of times. And I'm just not willing to do that now.

Kim: That did not occur to me, but yeah.

Mortellus: Yeah.. So that's a different headspace for me. That's probably the big one is, you know, I just am not willing to be miserable and pretend to be straight anymore. That's garbage.

Kim: So you're yourself now. That's a pretty big thing.

Mortellus: Yeah! I think that's such a big thing for so many people, is like, the gender binary part of being in, for example, a traditional Wiccan coven, it's like, if this magic's important to you, and this community's important to you, and you want to be a part of it, a lot of the time that means, even if you're out of the closet, it means shoving yourself into the boxes of whatever role the person training you has stuck you in. Like, you're being trained as a priestess because you have titties, I can observe.

Kim: Yeah, it's real weird that all that is determined by your genitals.

Mortellus: I know, it's weird. And like, you have to hear all this background. I remember one time overhearing someone, and I say overhearing like I was, you know, eavesdropping on the bus, but I mean we were in the same room sitting around the same table having drinks or whatever, and somebody was talking about a gay person in a different coven and they were like, and they're really one of the good ones because they know, you know, where they belong and how they're supposed to act in circle. So it was like good that they were-

Kim: Hey, I'm instantly offended. 

Mortellus: I know! I was instantly offended, and it's like if only you knew how extremely gay I am right now. I'm an entire bowl of alphabet soup right in front of you.

Kim: I'm so shrill right now in my head.

Mortellus: So I'm not willing to pretend to be straight anymore for witchcraft. There's that.

Kim: 100% approve. Excellent. Me neither. The hell? That makes me angry.

Mortellus: (laughs) I know.

Kim: I'm lucky. I'm lucky I found my people, because that is not how we roll.

Mortellus: I do think I found my people. And like I would like to say just for the sake of people listening who knew me from then. Those same people, the same coven, that same upline, there are people I LOVE. Who, they were fucking up in some ways, but really they've learned a lot since then and are completely different. Mostly because I finally dragged myself out of the closet and was like, look, this is how it's gonna be. (laughs) I'm not doing that anymore. And, you know, they got with it, and that's great. 

Kim: Yeah, that's something they used to do in their practice and now they don't any more, hopefully.

Mortellus: Yeah, exactly. You know, people, I think, get hung up on the idea, it's like, I had a bad experience in a coven of this kind of tradition or whatever, so I'm just never going to go back to that thing. But, like, be really cautious about lumping everybody in with that one experience, right? Because if people out there had a bad experience in a Gardenerian coven and lumped it forever, they might not try and seek again and find maybe someone like me, who has a completely different vibe. So there's so much variety, and I think it's important to find traditions that are important to you. And if there isn't a place there for you, fucking make one, you know? Like just carve that out. (laughs)

Kim: Apparently, I've accidentally done that. I was told over the weekend.

Mortellus: Bravo.

Kim: Surprise! (laughs)

Mortellus: I'm always happy to hear that. No, we don't make change in he world if we don't say words out of our mouth, sometimes, you know? Like sometimes we just have to stand up and just say, this is what I need and want, and that's what I'm going to make happen for me and other people, and just do it. And that's hard and scary and we don't always have the privilege of doing that because sometimes it's dangerous depending on who you are in the situation. But for those of us who can, sometimes doing that goes a long way to making a difference and in my particular instance I was fortunate enough to have an upline that cared enough about me and what I had to say that they changed and that allowed me to make a place where I can make change for other people.

Kim: Good!

Mortellus: Yeah.

Kim: Do you have a favorite tool in your practice? It does not have to be a physical object. Why is it your favorite, and how do you use it?

Mortellus: Can I give a jackass answer to that question?

Kim: Absolutely. Those are my favorite. 

Mortellus: (with sass) I don't have any favorite tools, Kim. I have favorite instruments.

Kim: Oh, fancy! (laughs)

Mortellus: So, when I was a student in Mortuary Sciences, we had this lab instructor who would practically slap your hand if you said the word tool. Like, a hammer is a tool, okay? Hammers are for hitting things. They're for broad purpose. An instrument is a specialty item honed to a specific purpose. The scalpel is an instrument. So, I use-

Kim: Ooooh, that's like what they told me in the army about my...

Mortellus: Right.

Kim: See? It's not a gun it's a weapon.

Mortellus: Right. That. So I use that terminology when I talk about my instruments because, for example, an athame is a tool. An athame, for one person, might be an instrument because it's honed- it's a knife that's honed to magic, right? But for me, an athame is a tool because it's not honed to a specific kind of magic. My athame is an instrument because I've honed it to necromantic magic.

Kim: Ooooo, that sounds so cool!

Mortellus: Right? It's about that kind of intention and how you're using language and how that kind of affects your practice. But to really answer the question, my favorite instrument is probably my aneurysm hook. So in mortuary use, behind the scenes, if you're doing embalming or that sort of thing, an aneurysm hook is a very specific instrument and its sole job is for raising the carotid artery, and it is an instrument not unlike... I use it like you might use a wand for directing energy, right? So when I make that incision and I reach in with the aneurysm hook to raise up the artery so I can put in a cannula, I slide the aneurysm hook under its handle. It's flat and wavy so that it holds it above the incision. And I use that instrument *not* in the prep room for magical purposes as well, to direct energy and I've consecrated it like a wand as well.

Kim: (pauses) I have to... this is freaking me out a little bit.

Mortellus: I'm sorry.

Kim: It's fine, I just, uhhhhh, I just have to get out of that mindset.

Mortellus: If it's too much I will avoid any topics that might be too-

Kim: You don't have to because it's interesting for other people, it's just gonna take me a minute to- (laughs uncomfortably) be able to inhale fully.

Mortellus: Well you're allowed to have trigger points as well, and to say no. So if it's uncomfortable for you I'll stay away from there.

Kim: Well, it's also probably something I should probably get over, or work through. 

Mortellus:  Have you ever read a book called The Worm at the Core?

Kim: Nope. That sounds horrible. (both laugh)

Mortellus:  It's not like its title.

Kim: I'll write it down.

Mortellus: But you might really enjoy that one. It sort of talks about how mortality is just such a real motivating factor for how human beings behave. It doesn't talk a lot about physical specific death and instruments and stuff, that's not the point of the book. It's more talking about the psychology of it and how people behave and like, why we do the stuff we do. And when you make it through that book and you are able to sort of confront how death is such a real motivating factor in your life, I have found it to be very helpful for people who are trying to confront issues around death. No, it's a really good book though, and interesting, and it just sort of weaves and winds through history. And it digs into topics like dating and jobs and like the way people act in them and the stuff they do to try and build legacy, even if they don't realize they're doing it and why. It's just neat. It's a neat book.

Kim: Okay, I like psychology. I can get into that.

Mortellus: Yeah, I think you'd like it. I wouldn't recommend it if I thought it was going to squick you out.

Kim: So you mentioned you live in Western North Carolina. Do you, I don't know if you lived anywhere else, but do you think that environment has shaped your practice? And if you lived somewhere else, like in the desert or on a beach, do you think your practice would be different because of those reasons?

Mortellus: So I grew up about a thousand feet from where I'm sitting right now. My parents are literally my next door neighbors. That's a story for another day. Big fenses make good neighbors. Anyway. I ran away at 17 and I went not very far at all, and wound up joining a carnival/circus and traveled all over the US a bunch. I've literally driven to every state in the continental US, and into Canada, and into Mexico. So I've seen a lot of the United States before winding up back exactly where I started, and I've been here for like 10 years now, give or take. All to say that I've spent weeks at a time in hotel rooms in lots of really disparate environments. I even spent, well, many weeks over the course of a couple summers doing carnival-type stuff on a cruise ship, so I've been out on the ocean a bunch. And have seen bits and bobs of other countries, but from the vantage point of a boat. I've never actually set foot in another country, unless you count Canada and Mexico, but that's a different story. All to say, I didn't find that my practice changed much based on where I was. And maybe it would if I spent years somewhere, but I think that's the small stuff, right, that sort of creeps up over time. Like, you don't really realize when you've changed a recipe. If you have a recipe, like let's say you make a chicken soup or something and you make it from the recipe until you know it by heart, right? That experience where you eventually just know it so you don't look at the thing anymore. And then maybe on this one day you didn't have noodles so you put rice in it and that was good. And like maybe the next time you did it and eventually you forget that you haven't used noodles at all. And then one day for whatever reason many years later you might notice that recipe and you'd glance at it and you'd be like there used to be cumin in this? When did I stop doing that? Or I put like 3 times as much garlic in there! or whatever.

Kim: That's the appropriate response.

Mortellus: Right, because you measure garlic with your heart.

Kim: Yes.

Mortellus: But we don't realize when we're changing the recipe. We don't realize when we've made it The choice, rather than A choice, we're making in the moment. We always as humans sort of think we're living in the moment. We're not really making changes like that consciously. Or rarely at least. So I think that asking whether or not your magic might change based on location. I mean, of course it would but not in a way that would be dramatically different from how it will change anyway where you are right now because we're never aware when we're changing the recipe.

Kim: For me I still practice the same way. It's just that... I don't know. I guess maybe the ingredients are different because I get them from the desert now, instead of the Blue Ridge Mountains.

Mortellus: Right.

Kim: But I still collect them the same way and use them and determine their use in the same way.

Mortellus: That's kind of like using the rice because it's what you had that day, right? And then-

Kim: Yeah, exactly.

Mortellus: Maybe you realize you just like the rice better or it just continues to be nothing available to you, but did you really change anything? or are you really consciously aware of that change, is I think the question to me.

Kim: I am aware of it because I started asking this question, so I had to think about it for myself. But yeah, exactly.

Mortellus: Yeah. So we're always changing. Our practice is always changing, period, because it has to be a fluid thing. And I don't think, per se, that's tied to specific choices or places. I just think that's the nature of magic and the nature of a practice like that. Because it is so natural and personal it is literally always going to change, no matter what.

Kim: Do you ever feel like you are in a magical slump?

Mortellus: Hey, we all have that, right?

Kim: I would assume so. What do you do to get out of it?

Mortellus: I, you know, that is a question I don't have an answer to that will sound like a pagan author, a Mortellus-type person answer, whatever the fuck that means. I'm always sort of aware that I'm about to give an answer that people are like, well, I could have said that. That's, I'm supposed to be learning stuff from you. I'm bad at this. That should be the title of this episode. (both laugh) I think when you have a slump, I mean, it's one thing to say, yes, these are my tips and techniques, but the reality is when you're having them, you're not going, let me refer to my tips and techniques list, you're just responding to them in the moment. So it wouldn't be fair of me to say I have a specific thing, because really it's just whatever works on that day. And I think that's especially true for neurodivergent people because those kinds of moments are sort of divergences in the expected plan that you like to follow in a certain way, that it just sort of throws all your shit off. So the best thing you can do is just like order tacos and lay on the couch and watch Netflix and hope it works out by tomorrow. Which is exactly, by the way, what I did last night So...

Kim:  I approve of that.

Mortellus: And maybe on a different day, it's well I sat down and I read this witchcraft book I liked again and that worked. Or maybe on a different day It's that someone asked me a question in email and in answering it, I realized something about myself or what I thought.

Kim: Ooo, I love those moments though.

Mortellus: Yeah, and it's going to be really unique to every person and every day. So there's not a good direct answer to what you do in those slumps. It just... you survive them. You eat your tacos, you watch your Netflix, you read your books, you doom scroll your social media, and then one day, one moment, one minute, one hour, you realize that you're ready to go do something again.

Kim: My answer is just slog through it until it stops.

Mortellus: That's like the same answer, I just use a lot of words about it. (both laugh)

Kim: Is there anything that you wish was more discussed in the witch community?

Mortellus: Oh, there are so many things that I could say there... We could talk more about the fact that we have a real fascist problem, that's a thing.

Kim: Lord!

Mortellus: Fuckin' why. Oh no. And I really wish I could hand everyone a printout that has the paradox of tolerance written on it.

Kim: (quietly) Oh my god.

Mortellus: Here's your homework, go read that and understand it. We don't have to give a platform to white supremacists.

Kim: If it's on the internet, then I will link to it in comments. What is it called down below the podcast? Show notes. (laughs)

Mortellus: The paradox of tolerance.

Kim: Yep. I'll link below.

Mortellus: I will give us a little quick summary because everybody should know that. Basically, the idea is that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually ceased or destroyed by the intolerant. To maintain a society of tolerance, a tolerant society must be able to defend against intolerance in the form of hate speech and discrimination. So basically, if you say the TERF-y people or the fascist people or the racist people or the whatever, they get to say what they want to say because free speech, we just don't have to like it. No. NO is the answer to that. You tell them to shut the fuck up. You cannot be tolerant of intolerance, because eventually those people will drown you out and you won't exist anymore.

Kim: Mm-hmm. So when they cry who's intolerant now? Me, bitch. It's me.

Mortellus:  I would also attach to that little printout, a printout of the actual free speech amendment in the Constitution because not all speech is free speech, and hate speech is not free speech. You are not free to speak hatefully, or threateningly, or lots of other kinds of ways, actually.

Kim:  I Like that story about the bartender who's like No, you can't just have one dude, a Nazi guy, because he's going to invite all his friends. You can't have just one. You can't just let them in, you have to say get out.

Mortellus: Right, exactly. So I would want people to talk about that more in the community because we have some real problems there, and especially when it comes to like quote-unquote big-name pagans, TM. There are a few of them that are just really crappy people, and everyone is scared to death to do anything about it. Or like say anything or whatever. So like maybe... maybe don't. Yeah, it's a problem. And particularly we have a cis het anti-trans problem, and that's garbage as well.

Kim: What is that, even? When we, what is, come on, people.

Mortellus: I know, it's actually, it's, ugh, my brain implodes every time.

Kim: Stop being stupid, immediately.

Mortellus: LIsten to people when they tell you who they are.

Kim: Hello!

Mortellus: Yeah, and just care about people generally. Unless they're shitty assholes, in which case we don't have to tolerate them. Refer back to point A.

Kim: Welcome to consequences.

Mortellus: All right. What else could we talk about more? I think that people should talk more about how playing is an important part of magic. Just being funny and happy and joyful and like literal actual games and fun. Human beings learn how to be people through play. Babies form all their ideas about the world, and they learn how to have motor function, and they learn how to interact with people through playing, toys and games. It's an important part of learning so why do we have to make everything such a boring drudge all the time? Like maybe play D&D about it. I could sit here quietly, or try, will my medication allow me? I don't know, to listen. It's like a guided path working. Or I could play D&D, which is a guided path working with dice.

Kim: It's weird how much D&D, how frequently D&D shows up in here.

Mortellus: I would just like to be clear for the record, I shouldn't have used D&D as a colloquialism when I mean tabletop roleplaying games. Because Wizards of the Coast is a bunch of shitbirds that recently sent like actual hitmen after a kid. They're like...

Kim: I heard about that.

Mortellus: They've become cartoonishly evil and I shouldn't have used them as a catch-all expression for tabletop RPGs. I'm a big Paizo dork, I enjoy Pathfinder. Fun little tidbit for your listeners, but my book coming out October 3rd is called The Bones Fall in a Spiral. And in the world of Pathfinder RPG, within it there's a fictional death deity named Pharasma. And if you read the Inner Sea Guide, which delves deeply into more lore than players ever wanted, and you read about clerics of Pharasma or whatever, that's the name of Pharasma's holy text, The Bones Fall in a Spiral. It is sometimes called The Bones Land in a Spiral, according to the game notes way deep in a bunch of books nobody wants to read. I reached out to Paizo, the company, and was like, I want to name my book this because I think that, like, aren't we enough past the Satanic Panic where these communities don't have to be afraid to associate with each other? And I would really like to just kind of give this nod in that direction. And they loved the idea and gave permission, and so that was very cool, I thought.

Kim: I also love that. That's super cool!

Mortellus: Yeah. So big thanks to Paizo. And I actually took one of the fictional rituals for the fictional death deity and made it into a real ritual, which is a last ritual. It's the last ritual in the book. And again, with their permission, which I thought was very cool.

Kim: That's really cool of them, and you.

Mortellus: Thanks. I thought it was very cool of them.

Kim: Do you have any words of advice for new witches? 

Mortellus: I wrote an article once because a young person reached out to me and asked me exactly that question, and my advice to them was to be wary of advice. That it's important to listen to yourself, your own instincts and your gut, but that it's also really important to have discernment about the advice that you're given. To make sure that the person speaking is an authority on the particular advice they are giving you. For example, I told that person that I was a Gardnerian witch and a necromancer and my focus was death, that my focus wasn't magic for beginner witches, and therefore I was a bad source of advice. But that I could give them advice on how to find good sources. I told them that if they sought out books, they should check them for currency, relevance, accuracy, authority, and purpose to use the "CRAP" test to determine if a book is of value to them. And to try and base any advice they received from individuals in that person's experience and authority. So they should know if they asked me a question about general advice about eclectic Wicca, knowing I don't practice it is a really important measure of the advice I give. I might give advice that's valuable, but they have to decide that. If they had asked an eclectic Wiccan for advice about Gardnerian Wicca, they should know that person isn't an initiate of it and therefore can't give good advice about it. So that's my advice. Be wary of advice, and be clear in the authority of the sources you choose.

Kim: That is my favorite response to this question so far. I love it. Holy crap. Thank you.

Mortellus: Everybody wants to act like they know everything about all the stuff. There's lots of stuff I don't know. And it's important to know what the person speaking can tell you. That doesn't mean that every person doesn't have value or something really good to share, because everyone does. how it fits in the question you're asking. That's the important part.

Kim: That's cool. Is there anything else you wanted to bring up, or anything you wanted to ask me? I'm gonna trust that your listeners, if they want to know about my new book or or know stuff about me, they'll go find me online or check out my Patreon. Patreon is a cool place just because it helps me hide my blog from like AI strip miners, and for very tiny amounts of money, it helps support my family, which is super cool. Those dollars help me occasionally buy my children a happy meal.

Kim: Nice!

Mortellus: But yeah, uh, yeah, I'm bad at the self-promotion thing. I don't like changing the aisles around in the grocery store either so... (both laugh) You go find me if you thought I was fun to listen to and I promise there's lots out there.

Kim: Links are in the show notes. This is coming out on November 7th and your book will have been out for a month, is that right?

Mortellus: Yes, it's out on October 3rd.

Kim: So make sure you go check out The Bones Fall in a Spiral by Mortellus. Look it up immediately, I command you. (Mortellus laughs) Now the last two things, thing number one is please recommend something to the listeners. It does not have to be metaphysical or witchcraft related at all.

Mortellus: Hmmm, recommend a thing...

Kim: It doesnt' have to be a physical thing. Like a smell, a sandwich, whatever.

Mortellus:  Hmmm. I hope you'll trim out all my thinking time. Or don't, make people know how bad I was at this. (laughs) I would recommend that everyone go to, I'll just give you something in front of me. Go to schoolofthought.org, they have these cool critical thinking cards and also creative thinking cards which are fun if you're hitting a writer's slump or something. But the critical thinking cards are just a regular card sized deck with different logical fallacies and things printed on them. It describes them. The deck's real cheap so you can basically just hand them out to strangers if you want to. You can also anonymously mail them to somebody and it'll have a letter that's just like, this person thought you like really needed to know this. (both laugh) You can passive-aggressively tell someone they're an idiot and they don't know how stuff works. But, yeah, it can be a cool way to start a conversation about how we think about the world. And there's even a game you can play. It's just sitting down with a friend, putting the deck in front of you on the table and like watching the morning news together, and every time you see a cognitive bias or a logical fallacy, the first person to spot it is to claim that card. So it's just a fun tool for thinking more critically about the world.

Kim: I don't know if it says what sort of person I am, but that sounds fun for the gathering that I'm going to have. (laughs)

Mortellus: I love them. I always carry a deck or two around and I often give the cards away. And each deck comes with just some cards in there that have their website address printed on the back that you can give away to people. So that's cool. I'm going to just pull one out of the deck right now. You have listeners who will have to just deal with that.

Kim: They deal with so much. (laughs)

Mortellus: This is a good one, actually. The framing effect is a cognitive bias on this card. The card says, you allow yourself to be unduly influenced by context and delivery. No one likes to think of themselves as easily manipulated, however, it's only when we have the intellectual humility to accept the fact that we can be influenced that we can limit how much we actually are. Try and be mindful of how things are being framed or what's being left out. This podcast is a perfect example of the framing effect. Just because you're listening to me right now on a podcast and you know I'm a published author doesn't mean my opinion is worth anything. So be careful being influenced by what you're listening to just because of the context you heard it in.

Kim: Am I going to add a warning at the end of every podcast that says view, think about everything you've heard, critically? Holy crap, that would be amazing!

Mortellus: We should, we should! I think that sort of looking at how we're interacting with the world. I mean it helps us all be better humans, right?

Kim: Huh, cool.

Mortellus: I love my little, my little critical thinking cards. They're super fun. And the creative thinking cards, love those because they have lots of little, you can just pull one out and it has a little exercise for like getting the creative juices going, so. They're neat.

Kim: I need that. Sadly. So the final thing that I ask guests, ask of guests, is to tell me a story.

Mortellus: Hmmm. Tell you a story. The first thing that came to mind was something that happened pretty recently, a while back, and I've talked about it before but maybe your listeners haven't heard it. When I was a kid, my sister had an imaginary friend. Not uncommon for kids in really traumatic situations to have a friend to cling to, but for my sister, who was, you know, three and four at the time, her friend was the purple spider. Purple spider got her into a lot of trouble.  Like a lot. She would tell us stories at night that the purple spider told her, they were always telling her neat stories and fables and stuff, and they were often telling her things that got her into trouble. The one day she did something I don't even remember what it was, but my parents were like, how did you know that? She's like, Purple Spider told me, and they absolutely freaked out and they just abolished all mention of the Purple Spider forever. And I didn't think about it again for 35 years. Just totally forgot the Purple Spider existed. And one day, about a year and a half or two years ago when the twins were three or four, one of them asked me one day if they could have a piece of chocolate. And me,  being an absolute fucking liar, I guess, said I didn't have any. Because sometimes that's an easy way to deal with those moments. And she was like, you have you have the special chocolate in the box on the fridge. Now about that, the kid had no idea this existed. Two, definitely couldn't even see it. And three, I purposely purchased this candy and put it in a place they would never see it because it was mine. (laughs) This was my candy. That caught me off guard. I said, how did you know that was there? And she said to me, the purple spider told me. (Kim squeals) And I proceeded to shit myself. Because I'm a witch and a magical thinker, but I wasn't fucking expecting that! And I said, Can you see the purple spider? And I at this point, I'd hit record on my phone because I was gonna send it to my sister. And she confidently turns and points at the wall and says, there he is! And there was nothing to be seen. (laughs) And I'm a person who talks to people about how I can plainly see dead people, but I couldn't see this spider, which troubled me greatly. So I texted my sister and told her about this experience. And instead of saying that's creepy or weird or whatever, the thing she said was I fucking told everyone he was real! (both laugh) And I proceeded to die some more.

Kim: That's really amazing for her though.

Mortellus: I know! It's very validating.

Kim: Valid, yeah! Validation! Finally!

Mortellus: In what universe could my then very young kiddo have possibly known that? I had just forgotten it was a thing, least of all had ever mentioned it, and nobody had...the circumstances of my life are not that my kids are ever around any of my birth family, so no one could have told it to her. So it was just this creepy, weird moment, and then for a while she mentioned the purple spider really regularly, and then just stopped mentioning them. But if I compare their two experiences, one, they were both afab people. Two, they were both under five years old. Three, they were both on the same physical piece of land at the times when these things occurred. So I've come to kind of wonder if it was some kind of, I don't know, land spirit, a friend has posited that it might be a not-see, and just choosing to show themselves to children. But we know they tell stories, they play jokes and tricks, and they specifically reveal themselves to young children. That's all we know.

Kim: That's interesting. Now I wonder about my sister's friend!

Mortellus: Yeah, super, super weird experience. Any words could have come out of my kids mouth on that day when I said, who told you that? The purple spider is what she said and I just remember blanching. That feeling where all the blood runs out of your face?

Kim: Mm-hmm

Mortellus: It's like, oh, that's, I don't know if that's scary right now. (both laugh)  I can't decide Yeah, it's super super weird so there's there's your story. I hope it was a good one.

Kim: It was great! Well thank you for the stories and for being on the show!

Mortellus: It was a pleasure. I really enjoyed talking to you. I hope you enjoyed talking to me.

Kim: Oh, I super did. I think you're great.

Mortellus: I hope there was no squinting at anything had to say. Like imposter syndrome people who just get in trouble.

Kim: Oh, no, not that kind. Just the sort of wincing maybe, but not squinting.

Mortellus: I'm sorry.

Kim: My issues are my issues.

Mortellus: Felt that. Super felt that.Kim: Okay, then everybody immediately go follow all Mortellus' socials. Okay, the end. Okay thanks bye!

Kim: So Mortellus, welcome to hive house we're about to get weird... er.

Mortellus: Okay. Are there people for whom it is not weirder? (both laugh)

Kim: What is your favorite quote? (fades out)

Mortelllus: (fades in) she had heard the noise and was trying to figure it out. So, she set up a little security camera, and what she discovered was there was a crow that would go out, and they would take out the cotter pin, and drop it, and they would pull the flap up, and get into the bin, get out some of the packaged foods, like cakes and stuff, throw them on the ground, and they would put the cotter pin back in.

Kim: Oh! They're so weird!

Mortellus: I know! And they couldn't get the packages open, so what she had been hearing this whole time was this fucking crow would take one of these packages-

Kim: They're beating the shit out of a Twinkie.

Mortellus: ...they would fly straight up and drop them on the roof of their house. (fades out)

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